[gmcfixer]

Hey all,

Yes that is a misleading title but not really. As of 2011 all diesel pickup trucks sold must have a DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) injection system with safeguards so it can not be bypassed or run empty. If a manufacturer sells trucks without them (as Chrysler is doing) they have to pay a hefty fine for each truck sold. Now, the idea is the fluid (which is not cheap) is injected into the exhaust while its running and causes a chemical reaction that reduces NOX emmisions. The fluid is 2/3 deionized water and 1/3 urea .... as in urine. Now yes its synthetic, they don't harvest cow urine or something like that. But its watered down urine that the federal government mandated be injected into your diesel truck exhaust, I know some big rigs already have it as well.

Fact is there are safeguards so you can't bypass the sensors, it won't allow you to drive it for extended periods if the tank is empty (goes into limp mode and restricts vehicle speed) and if the engine control module does not see the correct use of fluid to the diesel fuel used it goes into limp mode. It even analyzes the fluid for contaminates (I guess that way you can't actually pee in it) and if it finds them it goes into limp mode.

So, what do you think about having to pee in your exhaust?

Dave Z

[HK4U]

I think it is about as stupid as everything else that comes out of the District of Criminals. As I have said before the patients are in charge of the asylum.

[MaidMarian]

My dream truck was an F250 diesel. I thought since my husband has been a diesel tech for almost 20 years this would be easy. Nowadays seems every time he comes home he's talking about one new govt regulation after another.:down:

I'd switch to a horse and buggy but then they'll regulate methane too.

[Old Soldier]

I'd switch to a horse and buggy but then they'll regulate methane too.

They are already looking into trying that.

[bdlove]

:down:

I'd switch to a horse and buggy but then they'll regulate methane too.

I fear the horse and buggy days will be coming back!

[melensdad]

This only affects the larger diesels and it also includes cars too. The Mercedes Benz 350 Blue Tec diesel engine uses this same technology but the Volkswagen engines used in their diesel Jetta and diesel Passat automobiles do not require the urea injection.

I'm not sure if the diesel Touareg, or if the Porsche Cayanne diesel or if the Audi Q7 diesels (all share similar components) use the urea injection either???

[Stevejet]

Another idea from the E Pee A.

[ricbak]

:OHNO::eek:Another idea from the E Pee A.
.

:OHNO::eek:

[Old Soldier]

That's going to make for some smelly exhaust.:D

[ricbak]

That's going to make for some smelly exhaust.:D

Depends

[Bill Sanders]

2011: Highway diesel vehicles. 2013: ALL diesel engines, including construction equipment and mining equipment.
Where things may get interesting is when the urea systems freeze, at 12*F. Supposedly they have heating systems installed, and the start up will not be affected by cold. The interesting comes when you need to add urea mixture to the system when it's cold out. Better store it in warm temps (but not over 77*F as it degrades at temps above that) and pour it fast. In hot temps, best hope you use it up faster than it degrades, or you'll be taking your truck in for servicing. Average, according to Cummins= 1 gallon of urea solution (DEF) for every 50 gallons of diesel used, in a truck averaging 8.5 MPG. $7.95 per gallon at Advance Auto Parts, $18.95 from GM, $44 from Valvoline, according to Google Shopping. Add that to the cost of a fill-up. Which means that trucking costs will go up. Shipping costs will go up. Sales prices for EVERYTHING will go up, so that stores can get their money back. Which means we ALL pay through the wallet for the EPA's regulations, not just the diesel truck owners.

[MoJo]

Next they'll be wanting me to FAR_ in my LP tank to make it last longer.....of course then the price of beans would sky-rocket, not to mention beer and hardboiled eggs!! :D

[gmcfixer]

A couple points, yes melensdad is correct, if the engine can be tuned to an low enough NOX emmissions level it does not have to have the DEF injection. But in most cases with pickup trucks that is not realistic without reducing power levels. And Bill Sanders points are correct as well on highway trucks and future diesel equipment. BTW on the Advanced Auto parts DEF, one of the guys from the Ford dealership has told me they have had a bunch of folks having issues with contaminants in the Advanced Auto parts fluid. We haven't seen it yet, but most customers are just buying it straight from us. Don't know if the problem is the Ford program in the ECM or if its the customer contaminating the fluid when they put it in or if its the fluid itself.

Dave Z

[KathleenElsie]

Next they'll be wanting me to FAR_ in my LP tank to make it last longer.....of course then the price of beans would sky-rocket, not to mention beer and hardboiled eggs!! :D:lool::lool::lool::doom::doom::lool::lool::lool:

[Scarecrow2.0]

I fear the horse and buggy days will be coming back!
I say bring it on. they are getting way too controlling.

[gmcfixer]

My dream truck was an F250 diesel. I thought since my husband has been a diesel tech for almost 20 years this would be easy. Nowadays seems every time he comes home he's talking about one new govt regulation after another.:down:I feel his pain, As an engine and drivetrain tech I get stuck with all the diesel engine work as well!

I'd switch to a horse and buggy but then they'll regulate methane too.

I fear the horse and buggy days will be coming back!

The methane won't be what they regulate, but what they would tax comes out the same place!

Dave Z

[KathleenElsie]

I feel his pain, As an engine and drivetrain tech I get stuck with all the diesel engine work as well!

The methane won't be what they regulate, but what they would tax comes out the same place!

Dave Z
Do you now have to join the plumbers union?

[Fuelburns1]

I don't get the point. What is this supposed to accomplish? Is this fluid mixture going to be all over the road? The EPA needs to be disbanded for this foolish trash.

[MoJo]

Ok now the next question is this......what kind of adverse effects will it have on the oil?
Oils had to be reformulated to handle the removal of sulphur and I know the havoc taking that out did to fuel pumps etc ....so how much testing was done to see how this is going to beat up the total system? This I guarantee will take a reformulated oil at a higher price to the consumer!!

[KathleenElsie]

Its like struts at $100 plus each and shocks at $29.99. The consumer and their vehicles get the short end of a stick.

[IamRose]

Kinda like peeing up your back, and telling you it's raining.

[Scarecrow2.0]

sounds to me like the federal government should be peed on.

[BigSlick]

Another idea from the E Pee A.


That was cute ;)

[gmcfixer]

Is this fluid mixture going to be all over the road?

No it doesn't get on the road, when the mixture is sprayed, it is through a nozzle that tends to atomize the fluid, between the chemical reaction and the heat of the exhaust it burns off before reaching the tailpipe.

Ok now the next question is this......what kind of adverse effects will it have on the oil?

There should be no effect on the oil, the fluid is injected into the exhaust system after the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) and the reaction causes the NOx emissions to convert from NOx to N2 and H2O. This might give you a better picture of it.

http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2009/03/diesel_exhaust_diagram.gif
The above diagram is posted from autoblog/green.com and PickupTrucks.com. Please give credit to those sites for this diagram and its content.


Dave Z

[kn1080]

more ****py stuff from more ****py people.

[Glockster]

more ****py stuff from more ****py people.

Hadn't seen you around in awhile Kevin! Glad to see you back!:up:

[KathleenElsie]

Waiting for them to require a catalytic converter on my wood burner.

[Bill Sanders]

Waiting for them to require a catalytic converter on my wood burner.

Don't give them any ideas, please. :D

[MoJo]

There should be no effect on the oil, the fluid is injected into the exhaust system after the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) and the reaction causes the NOx emissions to convert from NOx to N2 and H2O. This might give you a better picture of it.

http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2009/03/diesel_exhaust_diagram.gif
The above diagram is posted from autoblog/green.com and PickupTrucks.com. Please give credit to those sites for this diagram and its content.


Dave Z
[/QUOTE]

Thanks gm......the diagram does explain it clearly. :up:

[lookingforthewayback]

Just think how much money this nation would save if we shut down the EPA and eliminated 90% of their regulations. We would be well on the way to eliminating our deficit with all the businesses bringing work back here. Let the states manage that stuff. If California wants all those regulations, more power to them, let the busineses move to Nevada or Utah etc.

[gmcfixer]

let the busineses move to Nevada or Utah etc.
Haven't they already started doing that?

Dave Z

[trinfryit]

catalytic converters (http://www.allexhaust.com) HKS Exhaust Systems are proven to flow more percentage of gases than other type of pipes. They are also known to produce favorable and minimal sounds when the vehicle and so they become comfortable. This results in huge power gains in both horsepower and torque. Coupled with a profound belligerent sound that lets others know your truck is far from stock. The gash stern systems and two fold sport system increase the exhaust note a staggering minimal noise. This allowed you to still be legal in every state including California but toe the line of aggressive sounding systems. If this dirt accumulates in large quantities, they may end up blocking some important parts and therefore preventing flow of petrol and other fuels. When this waste accumulates in solid form, it makes it hard for engines to run smoothly and this may cause their breakdown.

[trinfryit]

catalytic converters (http://www.allexhaust.com)


Pypes Exhaust Systems are proven to flow more percentage of gases than other type of pipes. They are also known to produce favorable and minimal sounds when the vehicle and so they become comfortable. This results in huge power gains in both horsepower and torque. Coupled with a profound belligerent sound that lets others know your truck is far from stock. The gash stern systems and two fold sport system increase the exhaust note a staggering minimal noise. This allowed you to still be legal in every state including California but toe the line of aggressive sounding systems.


When there is waste in the car, or in the cars system, the car tends to have slow operation and is not effective.

[old trucker]

Well I"m keeping my 2000 diesel superduty till I die.