[Jwalker]

Hello All,

First post here. I'm trying to find info on my Grandad's Wildey .475,
he says when he bought it (in the early 90's I think) he also got info on how to reload and aslo cut down Win. 284 casings and use them. Now he says he's lost the info, I can find the reloading data from the Wildey Website, but I can't find any info on the the conversion proccess. He also says he has all the reamers and dies needed to do the job he just wants to see the info he had before he does anything.
Thanks for any help.

[Blammer]

:welcome:I know nothing of .475 Widleys, but RCBS does:up: Sign up on their site for "Ask RCBS" You'll get correct info.
I got the dies to convert Match GI 30-06 brass to .243 Did a couple hundred & they are still going strong 25 years and "several" reloadings later.

Welcome to FFF BTW!:welcome::)

[Stevejet]

There is an adventuresome fellow wandering around in here, FFF Ranch, who goes by the moniker "fuldo" and I believe if you go to Members List in the horizontal blue color bar at the page top, you can look him up and maybe send him a message on the Wildey. He might answer if he isn't too busy shooting his.

[fuldo]

Hello All,

First post here. I'm trying to find info on my Grandad's Wildey .475,
he says when he bought it (in the early 90's I think) he also got info on how to reload and aslo cut down Win. 284 casings and use them. Now he says he's lost the info, I can find the reloading data from the Wildey Website, but I can't find any info on the the conversion proccess. He also says he has all the reamers and dies needed to do the job he just wants to see the info he had before he does anything.
Thanks for any help.

Welcome to the ranch Jwalker!

A full case forming die set is needed to convert Win 284 brass to Wildey 475 brass. If you or your grandfather have such a complete set (that includes a reamer, reamer guide and some forming dies) you can make the conversion. The process is very difficult and time consuming if done totally by hand. I tried the manual process and decidied it wasn't worth the effort. The reaming process is where most of the labor is and it's probably only practical to do if somewhat automated by using a drill press or milling machine for that part of the process and that would take special fixturing. Keep in mind that you also need a regular 475 Wildey reloading die set as well as the case forming set. I plan to put my case forming and remaining 48 pieces of Win 284 brass up for sale, to me it's not worth the effort and I've been able to find some new and used brass over the last year or so.

The conversion instructions are difficult to come by and the most common set/instructions are from Lyman. My set didn't come with instructions and I was able to obtain two instruction sheets; one from Lyman and one from an individual selling the same die set with instructions. Remarkably, the instructions sheet I got from the private seller was more up-to-date than what Lyman sent me just a few months ago. The up-to-date instructions have some additional and important guidelines to avoid unsafe loads.

I can scan and send you the latest instructions if you PM or email me your email address. The easiest way to do this is to right-click on my screen name of this post and choose one of those options. I'd be happy to sell you the extra brass for what I paid for it (with shipping).

Wildey 475 cartridges, new brass and used brass are almost impossible to find and very expensive. Also, parts are extremely rare so I would suggest that you shoot that gun only occassionally if at all. If it breaks it will be very difficult and expensive to repair if it can be repaired at all.

Good luck!

[Still Creekin']

I don't know anything about the .475 Widley. However, both Hornady and Remington are currently producing .450 Bushmaster brass. This cartridge is based on the .284 Winchester, cut down to 1.70 for a .452 bullet. Both the Remington and Winchester .450B brass are thinner at the mouth than a cut down .284 case and thus may prove easier to adapt and expand. My guess is that at 1.20 or less case length, an expander and reamer will definitely be needed. The .450B runs at a little under 40,000 psi. The case headspaces on the case mouth and case life is determined by the case length which gets shorter over time, (similar to .45 acp). It could be that you've found the next re-incarnation of .450B brass that's gotten too short? PM me your mailing address and I'll send you a couple of cases to play with.
BD

[fuldo]

I don't know anything about the .475 Widley. However, both Hornady and Remington are currently producing .450 Bushmaster brass. This cartridge is based on the .284 Winchester, cut down to 1.70 for a .452 bullet. Both the Remington and Winchester .450B brass are thinner at the mouth than a cut down .284 case and thus may prove easier to adapt and expand. My guess is that at 1.20 or less case length, an expander and reamer will definitely be needed. The .450B runs at a little under 40,000 psi. The case headspaces on the case mouth and case life is determined by the case length which gets shorter over time, (similar to .45 acp). It could be that you've found the next re-incarnation of .450B brass that's gotten too short? PM me your mailing address and I'll send you a couple of cases to play with.
BD

Thanks for the two Bushmaster cases Still Creekin', I received them yesterday. I measured and compared the .475 Wildey Mag, Win 284 and .450 Bushmaster cases.The outside profile of the heads are virtually identical and appear interchangeable. The only significant difference I saw in that area was that the chamfer above the extractor groove is heavier on the .284 & .450 than on the Wildey cases. The biggest difference as you mentioned is the wall thicknesses: the Wildey is about 0.012 wall, the .284 about 0.022 wall and the Bushmaster about 0.0145 wall thickness. The OD of the Bushmaster at the Wildey length (1.19) is 0.478, about 0.006 smaller than the 284 Win but the mouth of the Bushmaster at that length is much larger than the 284 due to the much thinner wall. This means that the standard 475 Wildey case forming set couldn't be used to convert the Bushmaster to 475 Wildey unless the expander is replaced with a larger one. If the expander was replaced so it expanded the Bushmaster case to the proper OD, then the other case forming dies may work well enough. If so, then only about 0.002 inches of material would need to be reamed-away from the wall instead of 0.010+ inches with the 284 Win.

The reaming operation is by far the most difficult and time consuming, especially when done manually. So, the conversion from Bushmaster to 475 Wildey should be much easier and quicker if a proper expanding die could be found. I'm wondering if my Dillon .475 neck sizing die would expand the Bushmaster mouth enough considering the slightly thicker wall. I may cut a Bushmaster case and try the .475 neck expander as an experiment although the depth of the expansion wouldn't be full-depth. If that seemed to work then a custom/modified neck expander/powder die could work well.

I'll pursue this mostly as a matter of curiosity but I'm still not sure I'd bother with this conversion. It's still a lot of time and effort and I've already have over 100 standard 475 Wildey cases to work with. Those 100 cases may last me forever considering that I don't dare shoot that gun very often considering its value and mostly the fact that's it's almost impossible to find parts for. Now, if Wildey was to come back as a viable company and offer repair parts again I'd definitely shoot it more!

I'll post an update after further experimentation.

[fuldo]

I experimented more with the Bushmaster cases. I ran the standard Dillon 475 powder funnel/expander into one of the full-length bushmaster cases on my 550B press just to see what OD would result. The OD was 0.494" afterwards. This is 3 mil smaller than the 0.497 minimum that Lyman suggests for their case forming set. Also, the powder funnel only engages less than half the required depth off a case finished to normal 475 Wildey length. The force required to reform the case was in an acceptable range but I suspect it might go too high if the engagement were deeper, at least using the standard Dillon set-up where the powder dispenser mechanism must support this load.

I've got a buddy with a machine shop. I may see if he can make or rework something for me that I can use for a full length expansion die. This process may be worth exploring more deeply. I'm certain that the reaming process would be fairly easly and routine when reworking the Bushmaster cases, it's just expanding the case large enough to start with that isn't straight-forward.

[jw4570]

If you want to sell the 475 Case forming set, I'd be interested.

Starline is currently asking people who want to be on a waiting list for 475 brass. I suggest signing up and putting your name on the list. When they produce it (I can take 2-3 years for oddball calibers), they will contact you. It's a good deal.

JW

[fuldo]

I've been on Starline's list for about 9 months now with no end in sight but I figure there's nothing to lose.

I'd like to explore the Bushmaster conversion more before selling the Wildey 475 conversion kit. I'll try to remember to PM you when I decide to sell.

[jw4570]

Fuldo,

When I had my Wildey, I had 200-300 cases with it. I kept a few cases when I sold it. The 475 worked well with 325 gr SP Gold Dots, and they were fairly inexpensive for that size. Blue Dot powder is what worked best, as that is what Wildey recommended (I actually spoke with Wil when I bought mine used about ammo, loads, etc., and I bought a few parts and brass). Mine functioned fine. I sold it because the grip was big for my small hands, and I wanted something else. However, I do have a project where I want to use the Wildey 475 round in 30-06 boltface. Do you think that the 450 Bushmaster is close enough to not use a reamer die if you could properly expand the 450 case and then size it back down with the RCBS dies you have? For the Wildey, I think the 475 is the only way to go.

[fuldo]

JW,

The Bushmaster case wall is 0.014-0.015 thick but the Wildey case wall is only about 0.012 thick. This tells me that the Bushmaster case would still need to be reamed after expanding to the 475 Wildey OD although only about 2-3 mils per side of brass would need to be reamed away. Otherwise the loaded case OD would be oversize and impossible to chamber. That would be a much easier task than reaming away about 10 mils of brass per side from the 284 Winchester brass. Not only does it take much more work to remove more material but the volume of brass chips is so great with with the 284 brass that the case fills with chips and must be emptied many times during the reaming process. This is a lot of time and grief. The Bushmaster might be able to be reamed in one step although I haven't tried yet. I must have a special expander made for the Bushmaster brass and haven't had time to explore that yet but I intend to.

[Still Creekin']

Fuldo, won't you loose a little of that case thickness when you expand it?

I don't know anything about the Wildey action, but if it was a revolver I was making brass for, I'd be awfully tempted to cut the brass just over length and fireform it with a light charge of Unique under some cream-o-wheat and a wax plug, and then trim it, ream it, seat a bullet, and finish forming it with a starting load. Just a thought.
BD

[fuldo]

Fuldo, won't you loose a little of that case thickness when you expand it?

I don't know anything about the Wildey action, but if it was a revolver I was making brass for, I'd be awfully tempted to cut the brass just over length and fireform it with a light charge of Unique under some cream-o-wheat and a wax plug, and then trim it, ream it, seat a bullet, and finish forming it with a starting load. Just a thought.
BD

It's true that the wall thickness will decrease a little when expanded but the case isn't expanded that much so the change likely won't be significant. All Wildeys are high-power pistols. The thought of a method of "dynamic expansion" passed my mind as well but it would be more difficult and speculative at best whereby expanding the case to the proper OD is relatively easy after a proper expander is found or made. The reaming operation will still be required to ensure the proper case wall thickness.

I designed an expander that's a reworked 7/8-14 capscrew and I have a couple of screws on order. This will allow the expander to be put in most standard presses including my Dillon 550B. I hope to have the expander made within a week or so and should have the Bushmaster brass cut, expanded and reamed shortly thereafter. I suspect I won't use the conversion process for any Wildey ammo; I'm mostly going through the process as a learning exercise.

[jw4570]

I ordered some Bushmaster cases to mess with. I can make an expander too, but most likely will start with a 475 stem and modify it. depends on what the inside of the case is like cut down.

JW

[jw4570]

P.S.,

What is the diameter of the Lyman Reamer? I ask because most case forming sets the reamer is a few thousands difference. The ream die holds the case a little small or big (I can't remember right now, I have to got mess with one) and then once you size it, all is good.

[fuldo]

P.S.,

What is the diameter of the Lyman Reamer? I ask because most case forming sets the reamer is a few thousands difference. The ream die holds the case a little small or big (I can't remember right now, I have to got mess with one) and then once you size it, all is good.

The Lyman reamer is tapered and measures 0.456 near the tip and 0.472 toward the end of the flutes. The shank is also 0.472. The reamer guide/shell holder measures 0.495 for the length of the bore where the case engages. This would equate to a wall thickness of 0.0115 at the mouth after the reaming process but the wall thickness increases to about 0.020 near the head where I believe it is somewhat thicker than normal Wildey brass.

I'm hoping to get the custom expander made this week and get the conversion done within the next week or so. I'm starting with an expander button diameter of 0.474, slightly larger than the regular reloading expanders I've seen for 475/480. I'm skeptical that the case will be tight enough in the reaming die if the normal 475 expander is used on the Bushmaster case before the reaming operation. It must be tight enough to keep the case from rotating in the press when reamed. I doubt it will be too big but if it is it can be polished down accordingly; rather too big than too small!

I'll post my results. I could have a second expander tool made for a small fee and save you the grief if you wish. I'd wait until the first one is proved-out.

[fuldo]

I finally got my custom expanding tool so I figured I'd try to convert one of the Bushmaster cases that Still Creekin' sent me (thanks again BD!).

It turns-out that the wall of the Bushmaster case increases in thickness enough that a standard 475 expander would likely expand the case enough for further processing on the Lyman 284-475 Wildey conversion kit. I started-out with the custom expander that I had made and found that although it expanded the end a full-length Bushmaster case to the proper OD, it was too big for further down into the case. With the case cut to Wildey length the custom expander was OK near the mouth but stalled and started to buckle the case about half-way down. I ended-up having to resize the OD again and continue the expansion operation with the standard expander provided in the Lyman conversion kit. The end result was that I was able to get the case expanded properly for the next operation (reaming).

I did the reaming operation on my Dillon 550B press using the Lyman conversion die and reamer. I started by hand but soon realized there was too much brass to be removed by hand. I attached a 1/2 drill to the end of the reamer and used it for the rest of the reaming process. A picture of the setup is shown. Although the process was fairly straight-forward, there were so many chips that I withdrew the reamer and case three times to empty the chips. I don't know if there is enough room for the chips if the reamer were forced down but I didn't want to take the chance on my first attempt. I measured the weight of the chips to be about 3 gr and as you can see from the picture they may quite a pile.

The reamer seemed to stop cutting just before it hit bottom. I'm not certain why but I suspect it got to a point where the amount of material was excessive for the tip to cut. I suspect it wouldn't matter, especially if loads are redeveloped with the converted cases. The final wall thickness varied from 0.0112 to 0.1122 and that should be acceptable.

I'm debating on whether to run this case through the rest of the reloading process (or not). I'm certain it will work OK and it seems to me that I'd prove little with a sample of one.

I'm certain that the conversion from 45 Bushmaster to 475 Wildey is practical and certainly easier than converting from Win 284 brass because on the greatly reduced amount of material that needs to be removed. However, considering the cost of new 45 Bushmaster brass and the time involved in the conversion process, I'm still not convinced it's worth the effort. This is especially true for me because I have enough 475 Wildey rounds and brass to get by for now.

[lagenour]

Just found this post, if anything is still needed, I have a new set of the reloading dies and a barely used set of the 284 - 475 conversion.
Also have 100 rnds of new 475 brass (not 284) and 3 boxes of bullets.
If you need copy of dies instructions let me know, other wise I just started looking sell the lot today (sold the Wildey).
PM if I can be of help.

[kentodd475]

do you still have the bullets?

[fuldo]

Just found this post, if anything is still needed, I have a new set of the reloading dies and a barely used set of the 284 - 475 conversion.
Also have 100 rnds of new 475 brass (not 284) and 3 boxes of bullets.
If you need copy of dies instructions let me know, other wise I just started looking sell the lot today (sold the Wildey).
PM if I can be of help.

I apologize to Lagenour, he was very considerate with his offer and I somehow totally missed his post back in January. I've since picked-up more brass and some bullets although additional bullets of this type are always welcome. There may be one small independent bullet manufacturer still making pistol bullets in 475 caliber and I'm not sure they're even still in the game. The 475 revolver bullets can be used but it just doesn't seem right. From the looks of it there are others who could use the bullets more than I, I don't shoot my Wildeys much do to the risk of damage and the almost impossible to find and very expensive repair parts.