[Williamlayton]

I got a call today from Ed Vandenberg---He accepted a buyout last year at the College he worked at. He is full time at the gunsmithing---and happy.
I went over to chat with him--shoot the bull and see if he had burned all his ties yet.
Another guy came in with his AR that Ed had built for him--wanted the barrel free floated.
Was a good BS session.
I brought up the subject of my lamented purchase of a Python. The guy there is a cop. He said" Nice gun but they get out of time easy when you hit somebody with it."
Anyway---AR + .22mag----has a nice ring to it. Don't know about the magazine issue.
Hummmmm---.22mag AR-----Fully automatic?----may be a song to this tune.
Blessings

[budroe]

That would make one mean little ground hog assault rifle!!!

[bluedlightning]

I've been wanting someone to come out with a conversion kit for the AR seris of rifles in 22 mag, even a dedicated upper would be nice but a whole gun WOW! Now I would buy one of those.

[budroe]

I'm glad Vandenberg is now working full time as a gunsmith. Maybe he'll expand on the number of guns he's willing to work on.

[Williamlayton]

Not sure that is going to happen.
Scratch the .22 mag---it can't happen according to Ed.
Besides, as he points out, and I should have thought of---the .22mag ammo is as expensive as the .223. Makes me feel real intelligent. :bolt:
Blessings

[Williamlayton]

On the other hand :psycho::psycho::psycho: it may be God giving the OK for a .223.
I really didn't get the word---just, you know---HOPEING. :P
Blessings

[jimfox]

On the other hand :psycho::psycho::psycho: it may be God giving the OK for a .223.
I really didn't get the word---just, you know---HOPEING. :P
Blessings

I'd take that as an affirmation. :up::up::up:;)

[budroe]

The .22 mag ammo would be expensive, but no more than 6.8 or other calibers you see ARs made for.

I'd like to see Vandenberg branch off into revolvers. From the job he did on my Commander I'd certainly give him some work. I've had a few guys on a Texas gun forum whine about him not being outgoing enough. When I dealt with him, he was really helpful and made a few suggestions that worked out really well for me. He's getting to be really well known in the Houston area, and his work is extremely well liked. I'd say he won't have any problems going full-time.

[Williamlayton]

ED is not outgoing and is all business until you get to know him.
He can be a little short at times.
I tend to like him. You get straight answers and good opinions.
He just does not work on revolvers for some reason.
I am taking the two supers back to him. I am getting light strikes and failure to go back to complete battery. Not all of the time but once a mag is too much.
This is with differnt ammo's--so it is hard for me to say it is hard primers or light loads. Might be springs.
We will see.
Blessings

[oldtimer]

There are several states where you have to use a .22 rimfire to hunt hogs. Even though the .22 Magnum may cost as much as a .223, it is the only game in town in those areas. I am very puzzled why gunmakers can't make a .22 Magnum semi-auto. Is it the length of the cartridge or balancing the opening of the bolt with the gas pressure? My guess is that the market is just too limited. Everyone wants one, but no one will buy one.

[budroe]

I've never known a real gunsmith who enjoyed sitting around talking during work hours; especially when he wasn't working as a smith full-time. Tell them what you want done and get outta their way. I know Ed made his name as a 1911 specialist (and he certainly earned his reputation). Now that he's working as a smith full-time perhaps he'll want to expand his services. Then again, he'll probably be happy just cutting down his delivery time. He was really busy when I sent him my Commander, and he warned it might take 90 days or so. I was in Iraq at the time and told him to take as long as necessary, no hurry. He still made his deadline.

[Williamlayton]

He loves to build accurate rifles.
Blessings

[9x19]

These folks have some rimfire alternatives, but no Magnums... and I can well imagine the magnum ammo costs is the biggest reason.

http://ballisticadvantagellc.com/barrelsandmore.php

[budroe]

Walmart has .22 magnum ammo for under $10/box of 50 rds. That's not all that bad. Shooting it out of an AR could up the ante a bit. The AR isn't the best rifle to have when it comes to conserving ammo. Something about them just makes you want to blast away.

[bluedlightning]

CZ has a 22 WRM rifle semi-auto rifle out the model 512. If they can do it why not anyone els? I bet if they was to used a locked breach it would work better then a blowback action.

[HK4U]

I think we are all a little crazy and the best way to address the problem is with the addition of a new firearm.:D

[9x19]

I've got the .22 Magnum semi-auto bases covered, but y'all have fun.

Ruger 10/22M with KSA laminated stock and a Simmons 2.5x-8x 36mm scope
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/Ten%2022/1022MLS.jpg

[budroe]

Nice carbine. Good to see yah on-line. Haven't seen you post in a while - of course I'm half blind and limited memory!!!!:D:D:D

[Williamlayton]

There is just something about a black rifle that draws me---call me sick---I admit it.
Blessings

[9x19]

There is just something about a black rifle that draws me---call me sick---I admit it.
Blessings

Well, then....

Ruger 10/22 Nordic
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/Ten%2022/1022NKtgmwg.jpg

Sig Sauer 522 Commando
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/S522CpaM3.jpg

Smith & Wesson 15-22 MOE
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/SW1522MOEsim.jpg

Smith & Wesson 15-22
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/SW1522PAM3SF.jpg

Tactical Solutions/Rock River M4-22
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/22TRRM4.jpg

[budroe]

I've been dragging an M-4 behind me for much of the last ten years. Easy to complain about something you get so familiar with. In the case of the M-4, that hasn't happened to me yet. I still really enjoy playing with them.

[jimfox]

Well, then....

Ruger 10/22 Nordic
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/Ten%2022/1022NKtgmwg.jpg

Sig Sauer 522 Commando
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/S522CpaM3.jpg

Smith & Wesson 15-22 MOE
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/SW1522MOEsim.jpg

Smith & Wesson 15-22
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/SW1522PAM3SF.jpg

Tactical Solutions/Rock River M4-22
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/22TRRM4.jpg

Williamlayton - face it - with the draw toward black rifles, and the low(er) cost of .22 ammo - you should get at least one of each. :D :D

Do that, then get a couple dozen bricks or so of assorted ammo, bring the whole bunch up on a pleasant day and we'll get out under the Live Oaks and I'll help you get each one regulated to it's preferred fodder. :) :D You can select just which one you want to pass on to your grandson. :up::up:

[KMDO]

Since ruler expanded and made easily available to the public their non diminished capacity magazines it would be nice if they came out with one in 22mag for their semi auto, and one for the 6.8.

[eljay]

There are several states where you have to use a .22 rimfire to hunt hogs. Even though the .22 Magnum may cost as much as a .223, it is the only game in town in those areas. I am very puzzled why gunmakers can't make a .22 Magnum semi-auto. Is it the length of the cartridge or balancing the opening of the bolt with the gas pressure? My guess is that the market is just too limited. Everyone wants one, but no one will buy one.

Well they did. I have a Ruger 10-22Mag that I bought the first year it was produced, made only very limited improvements, and it is my number one varmint rifle up to as large as coyotes. But feral hogs? Not the kind we have round here! I bought a rifle especially for them, and it's a Winchester 94 in .44 Mag.

Ruger quit making and selling the rifle, supposedly because of trouble getting the heavy metal that the bolt is made out of. It is blow-back operated, by the way. But I think that the reason they stopped is that so many people were messing with the guns, and making them unreliable, that their reputation was being ruined.

Last time I bought ammo, it was under ten bucks for a box of fifty Winchester Super X JHP.

David

[budroe]

Yep, and people who bought the ruger 10/22 mag. and didn't ruin it with kitchen table gun smithing haven't let go of their guns. I've been looking at the 96/22 as a possible Father's Day present for myself. Might even be a bit more fun than the 10/22 model.

[Popeye]

I believe Remington continues to make their auto-loading Model 597 chambered in .22 Magnum.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/rimfire/model-597/model-597.aspx

[BigSlick]

I don't know where you guys buy your 22 magnum from but I picked up two 50 round high velocity HP boxes on Wednesday for 9.88 each. Per round it's as cheap or cheaper than 9x19. An AR style 22 magnum rifle, sign me up.

[Williamlayton]

What I have READ in my search for a .22mag ina a black rifle is that there is a problem with function of the upper.
I have no idea the truth of this but it is on the web by a number of writers/reviews.
It does make sense that if it was a reliable piece there would be some out there,
As far as cost is concerned it males no sense to me to spend as much (or close to it) for mag ammo when you could shoot .223. That, and, I was looking for the upper in the mag and to be able to change it out to .223,
My determination is that I want an upper in .22 and to be able to swap it to .223 when I want.
BigSlick
Where did you find that ammo?
Blessings

[BigSlick]

It was Fiocchi .22FWMB 40 grain@1910 FPS ammo. I found it at a WV gun/pawn shop but it was more like a typical gun store than traditional pawn shop. Only pawns guns, gold or silver. At Wally World you can buy the Winchester white box 45 grain .22 mag for around 8 bucks for 50 rounds. A lot cheaper than .223. I can't even reload .223 for that price.

As far as the problem with the function I fail to fully understand the problem associated with making a reliable or functional action to use the .22 magnum. If gun makers can build a weapon to handle the .308, 6.8, 223, 7.62x39 semi auto I don't see the problems a .22 magnum would pose. I have a Spikes Tactical .22 conversion for my AR and I love shooting it that way simply for the economy of .22lr. The only problem with the conversion is it likes only premium ammo like CCI stingers. Does not like the cheap Federal or Winchester white box ammo. Stovepipes almost every other round.

I think the .22 magnum is a superior round vers the .22lr. I have a bolt action glass bed, floated barrel .22 magnum that is a dream to shoot and is my go to gun for the coyotes. I would just love to have one of those evil black rifles chambered with that round.

[budroe]

I know very little about gun smithing; I know just enough to know if I have a problem with a gun - I take it to a gun smith to fix. I don't try to make the problem worse for the smith. That said, There are ARs, AKs and H&K MP5s out there that shoot .22 LR. The .22 magnum is only a tad longer - I really wonder why its so much harder to make an AR for that round.

[Popeye]

The 'ARs' I have seen chambered in .22 LR are straight blow-back actions.

The problem may be that .22 WMR operates at higher pressures, calls for a considerably heavier bolt in blow-back actions and the 'AR' style actions enclose this necessarily heavier and faster moving bolt in aluminum - not steel.

[budroe]

Well that makes sense to me.

[knc1105]

Ya'll are right a Remington 597 22 mag is a keeper, I've got 2 and I love them and in Texas you can hunt wild hogs with anything. There are not any high cap mags for the 597 magnum yet. Federal 50 gr shoots best in all my stuff. A Volquartzen drop in trigger upgrade from Brownells is amazing. That Federal shot best in my PMR-30's, CZ-452, CZ-611. Academy stocks the 597 Magnum for $399 new.

[knc1105]

Those 597 magnums are synthetic stocked, and I have a Sig 522 also and it's fun. I bought my daughter and me Bushmaster Carbon 15 .22's so I could teach her the functions of a AR without spending a ton on ammo. They have stopped making them when they were bought out like everybody else and now extra mags are a problem.

[budroe]

I've slaughtered farm hogs in a pen with a .22 LR rifle. Shot them between the eyes at less than 10 ft. range. I certainly wouldn't want to hunt wild hogs in Texas with a .22 LR. Can't get close enough to ensure a sure one shot kill, and I don't want to trade hits with a 200 lb. hog.

[eljay]

I've slaughtered farm hogs in a pen with a .22 LR rifle. Shot them between the eyes at less than 10 ft. range. I certainly wouldn't want to hunt wild hogs in Texas with a .22 LR. Can't get close enough to ensure a sure one shot kill, and I don't want to trade hits with a 200 lb. hog.

My son spent time on several ranches in southern Texas, went out with the owners and foremen on occasion, when they were not even hunting hogs. However, they had enough on their land that they always carried their 'hog gun', and Bill saw several shot. Gun of choice? Winchester 94 in .44 Magnum caliber. Reasons? Knockdown power of a .30-.30 out to a hundred yards, large magazine capacity, and a highly reliable weapon. Bill watched some shot and, in every case the shooter would do the same thing; shoot the hog, which would knock it down, keep the gun trained for about a half minute. He asked why, they said a lot of times the hog would go down on the first shot, the get back up, really mad now, and have to be hit a second time. This with a .44 Magnum carbine.

Don't believe I'd want to use anything smaller. That's why I bought mine. :up:

David

[budroe]

Eljay, since we've been in Texas we've often made a drive up to the Hill Country around Easter just to check out the bluebonnets. Either 2002 or 2003 we were having lunch in Llano one Saturday when some boys came in the restaurant all excited about a hunting accident. Asked one guy what happened. Some hunter (with his guide) had a 300 pound boar come at him out of the brush from about 30 feet. He shot the boar twice (one shot through the head) with 180 grain .357 magnum rounds. Other round tore through the chest into the boar's heart cavity. The guide also hit the boar in the head, right through an eye. The boar lived long enough to rip the hunter open, completely disemboweling him. The guy was dead in seconds. The guide shot the boar three more times before it collapsed and died. I like to carry a handgun while hog hunting even though I use a .30-30 for a primary gun. My handgun is now either a .44 magnum or hot loaded .45 Colt.

[eljay]

Yeah, I've heard stories like that. Another reason I want a big, strong gun if I'm around hogs, or hunting them. Been real fortunate, never seen any sign of one on our property, but neighboring ranches south and west of me have them. A son-in-law who hunts deer in hog country says to always keep track of the nearest tree that you could climb, it's the only way to get away from them if you're not armed, or not armed heavy enough.

If you're coming up for the bluebonnets, better hurry...we've had so much warm weather that Paula says they'll be gone in another couple of weeks.

And if you're coming this way, let me know when and where. If it's close enough to where I am, maybe we could get together. Could exchange PM's with phone numbers, etc.

David

[budroe]

Would love to make it. Looks like the wife is tied up for the next week or so with Easter activities at church. She'd probably kill me if I went without her - some Christian, huh??

[9x19]

FYI:

Grafs is my favorite place for ammo (4.95 flat rate shipping), and they have .22 WMR for as little as $7.99 / box.

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/379?

BTW, I think it was (Texas Sheriff) Jim Wilson who used to tell the story about tacking a wounded boar into the brush carrying a .357 Blackhawk... when he emerged after dispatching the animal, his buddies were laughing hard enough to cry. When he asked why, they said that was the only time they'd ever heard a Blackhawk go full-auto.

Sometimes hawgs take a lot of killing!

[eljay]

FYI:

Grafs is my favorite place for ammo (4.95 flat rate shipping), and they have .22 WMR for as little as $7.99 / box.

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/379?

BTW, I think it was (Texas Sheriff) Jim Wilson who used to tell the story about tacking a wounded boar into the brush carrying a .357 Blackhawk... when he emerged after dispatching the animal, his buddies were laughing hard enough to cry. When he asked why, they said that was the only time they'd ever heard a Blackhawk go full-auto.

Sometimes hawgs take a lot of killing!

Roger that!

[budroe]

9x19, I remember reading that article too!!