Point Shooting


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Popeye
03-15-2012, 01:26 AM
Point shooting (also called threat focused shooting, incorrectly called reflexive shooting and sometimes both correctly and incorrectly associated with a flash sight picture (http://www.guns.com/working-on-your-flash-sight-picture-for-self-defense-scenarios.html)) in its simplest form is shooting (http://www.guns.com/tags/shooting.html) at close ranges while not being able to use your sights. This could be because of the speed of action, low-light conditions or because the scenario takes place in a confined space, but the last part—the part about not using the gun's sights—is crucial because this is what separates point shooting from other style.

http://www.guns.com/images/editor/point_shooting.png

The shooter literally does not aim the gun but rather uses a combination of good pistol grip technique, trigger pull and intuition/sight picture to hit the target. Accordingly, point shooting is not just a quick draw, though quick draws are a vital ingredient in point shooting. The resulting action is decidedly faster than drawing and aiming and with practice can become even more effective.

Accordingly, point shooting is a close quarters combat technique, most effective against targets within the seven-yard range.

Methods of Point Shooting

In his book No Second Place Winner, Bill Jordan likened point shooting's draw and hold components to tossing a knife underhanded. The gun hand and gun should end up outstretched and slightly above waist level. Jordan also stated that this type of shot is best for less than seven yards.

There are no hard and fast rules to point shooting, but there are a couple of well-known doctrines and they come to us from William Fairbairn, Eric A. Sykes and Rex Applegate, three of the earliest proponents of the tactic.

Called the Fairbairn, Sykes, and Applegate, the British Office of Strategic services commissioned the development of this method defense tactic in 1942. Rex Applegate would detail the methodology fuller in his 1943 classic self-defense primer, Kill or Get Killed.

Applegate’s school of thought essentially instructs shooters to:


Bring the handgun up to a position just below the eye of the shooter.
Locking the elbow and the wrist to ensure it is aimed on target.
Rely on a smooth trigger pull (http://www.guns.com/concentrate-on-your-finger-trigger-control-and-what-it-means-to-accuracy.html) to guarantee accuracy.
The last step is crucial because much of Applegate's instruction on point shooting requires the shooter to develop a firm, consistent shooting position that they can assume consistently and without much, if any, thought.
For those that advocate the two-handed style of point shooting, such as the Israeli method, it can be effective, but the one-handed stance is faster to get on target once one gets good at it. To hit targets not in front of the shooter, Applegate advises turning at the waist and not moving the arms like a tank moving on its turret.

Practicing Point Shooting

The National Rifle Association (http://www.guns.com/tags/nra.html) (NRA) recognizes the use of point shootings in life-threatening situations where the body's natural reaction to close quarters threats may prevent meeting the marksmanship requirements of sight shooting and with an endorsement like that, I feel point shooting is something that all defensive shooters should know (and in this case knowing means practice). As mentioned, point shooting hinges on instinct and instincts take time to cultivate through repetition (http://www.guns.com/repetition-the-law-of-learning.html) and the best way to practice point shooting, like any other potentially dangerous tactical technique, is with an unloaded and empty handgun (http://www.guns.com/tags/handgun.html).


Draw from your normal open or concealed carry position (hip, off-hand shoulder, ankle (http://www.guns.com/crossbreed-takes-new-steps-introducing-the-ankle-carry.html) etc.).
Lock hands and wrists towards target
Pull the trigger just when you have the muzzle aimed at the target (and held just below the eye to give you a flash picture (http://www.guns.com/working-on-your-flash-sight-picture-for-self-defense-scenarios.html))
Practice this 100 times
Each repetition should take less than a second. When you feel confident about the drawing, aiming and firing techniques, you can go live ammo (http://www.guns.com/tags/ammo.html), just start off slower than the first round of practice. Remember, only set up targets at about seven yards and if you are having trouble hitting this, there is no shame in moving the target forward (this is s CQC exercise).



http://www.guns.com/point-shooting.html

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budroe
03-15-2012, 02:38 AM
I was fortunate enough to watch Bill Jordan run his point shooting exhibition. The guy had to be pushing 70 (maybe he was). I could not believe how fast he could draw and shoot, and how accurate he was. I've been to a lot of pro shooting matches, but have never seen anything like him. I saw him in the mid 70's. Bought my first model 19 the next day.

Dwayne
03-15-2012, 09:01 AM
Hey Budroe. . .

This is me. . .(in Disguise of course. . . ;):D)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vl9FniemlE

Stevejet
03-15-2012, 05:39 PM
A reading of Chapter 9 - "Quick Draw & Hip Shooting" from Elmer Keith's book "Sixguns" is interesting reading. In fact the entire book is interesting.

budroe
03-15-2012, 10:06 PM
"SIXGUNS" AND "HELL, I WAS THERE" are two of my favorite books. I used to have an autographed copy of both; one was lost during a move - the other was loaned to a friend and I never got it back. I have found soft back copies of both books. My autographed copy of "NO SECOND PLACE WINNER" by Bill Jordan had a very well written chapter on gunfighting. Sadly, I left it with one of our young security contractors in Iraq. I'll have to find another copy asap.

LadyFaire
03-16-2012, 04:26 AM
'Point shooting' is how I was originally trained to shoot by my parents. The way it was described to me was, when you point your finger at something, you are remarkably accurate/precise. If you use the same method with a gun in your hand, you are also accurate. This is true. HOWEVER. There is a snag, here. This is the most accurate way to shoot IF YOU WEREN'T TRAINED TO USE YOUR SIGHTS first! It is very difficult to overcome long time training. It took me forever to learn to actually USE the sights on my gun (the ARMY way!), and after doing that, it is getting harder for me to get back to point shooting. You see, at my age, I can see the sights OR the target, but not both at the same time. So I'm trying to get back to using point shooting. Then I don't have to worry about my vision problems or if I have glasses on to see the sights, etc. Sigh. It is really difficult to ignore the sights after having that hammered into one.

One major benefit to point shooting is that it really doesn't matter if you have 'zero'd the gun, or even if you have ever shot that particular gun before. It also doesn't matter if you are in a low light situation where you might not be able to get a 'sight-picture'.

I need to spend more time (and ammo) at the range practicing. Anyone wanna go with me? More fun in company!

KathleenElsie
03-16-2012, 11:09 AM
Point shooting and not taking time to "sight" your target could well be the difference of your survival or death.

Tim Sullivan
03-16-2012, 12:58 PM
My dad was an excellent hip shooter--very fast and accurate in CQ situations. He could draw one of his beloved snubby model 15-3s and get off a couple of center mass shots before most folks could clear leather. I learned his way as a kid, but switched to a modified Weaver as a teenager. While I was quick--and much more accurate at greater distances--Dad would always get the first shot off, and that shot would be lethal.

Urzandowski
03-17-2012, 10:30 AM
Thanks Popeye for the refresher course. I have practiced point shooting since Iv been shooting. Pistols AND Shotguns.

kilogulf59
06-19-2012, 08:55 AM
What is point shooting exactly?


Point shooting is an adjunct to, not substitute for, sighted fire.
Point shooting IS aimed fire.
One can quickly gain knowledge of Point-Shooting and the time and money invested in maintaining these skills are much lower. Let us face it; even police do not train for a living only professional instructors do.
It is all-inclusive and depends mainly on the distance involved. Therefore, it is not “hip shooting” as some would believe.

Point Shooting is a very misleading term. To the best on my knowledge, sighted fire and two-handed shooting was always taught in PS'ing. It all depends on the distance involved.

Further reading on the subject in case anyone's interested...

Modern Point Shooting (http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96602)

Jim Cirillo's Alternative Sighting Methods (http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95763)

Point Shooting Drill (http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97884)

The Sight Continuum (http://kilogulf59.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=handgun&action=display&thread=3838)

Point Shooting Lesson Plan (Parts 1 thru 4) (http://kilogulf59.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=handgun&action=display&thread=114)

To Sight or Not to Sight? (http://kilogulf59.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=handgun&action=display&thread=3839)

HK4U
06-19-2012, 08:58 AM
I was fortunate enough to watch Bill Jordan run his point shooting exhibition. The guy had to be pushing 70 (maybe he was). I could not believe how fast he could draw and shoot, and how accurate he was. I've been to a lot of pro shooting matches, but have never seen anything like him. I saw him in the mid 70's. Bought my first model 19 the next day.

I had the pleasure of meeing him at a gun show once and getting a book signed by him. He was one of the all time greats.

kilogulf59
06-19-2012, 09:26 AM
Forgot one, and it's a goodie...Combat Firing with Handguns - 1944 (http://kilogulf59.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=handgun&action=display&thread=3390)

boris007
06-20-2012, 08:53 AM
ken, everything you have posted is great materiel! Thanks!

boris007
06-20-2012, 08:55 AM
well done on you too, popeye!!!

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