[deputy]

............40 cal pistol ammo contract.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/atk-secures-40-caliber-ammunition-contract-with-department-of-homeland-security-us-immigration-and-customs-enforcement-dhs-ice-2012-03-12?reflink=MW_news_stmp



ATK Wins Five-Year, Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity Contract for .40 Caliber Ammunition from DHS, ICE --Additional .40 Caliber Ammunition Contract with 450 Million Round Potential

[festus]

there goes the ability to buy ammo again...
The last time the Govt' did this, you could not find ammo in common pistol calibers because the govt' contracts take priority over consumer needs.

I ask you when is the Govt' going to expend 450 million rounds?

this is the same ploy the govt' used last time to usher in ammo rationing at the big box stores and ammo prices went through the roof.

please take note that this falls hot on the heals of the notice that many firearms manufacturers simply cannot keep up with current orders on existing lines and have refused new orders because manufacturing capacity is currently maxed out. The American consumer is buying guns at a record pace and has been since 2008.

on the plus side Sturm Ruger stock is doing great as are most other firearms manufacturers...

Why is the Govt' buying so much 40 S&W ammo? Is it the same thing all over again?
Who are they afraid of? Is it a very clever way to deprive the public of the second amendment without passing a single law or passing anything through congress?

[budroe]

Government agencies make these kinds of contracts all the time. Rarely do they live up to them. The govt. is only liable for scheduled ammo deliveries for the current fiscal year. Later deliveries are at the govt's discretion. Often smaller companies gear up heavily for these type contracts, often adding additional tooling/equipment and personnel to do a good job. Then the govt. drops the contract and the contractor takes a huge loss.

[HK4U]

I did not know the feds were using the 40 that much. I would have thought it would have beed more likely 9mm or 45Cal.

[jimfox]

festus - I'm with budroe - I wouldn't read too, too much into that news release. These are BIG agencies, and the 450 million was a potential max number for 5 years. (And you have to figure some creame for the Justice Dept. to skim for a fast and furious walk to Mexico. :D)

I'm sure the folks at Federal are smiling - but I doubt the folks at Federal are shuttering too, too many other assembly lines to concentrate on this one load. One caliber, one bullet type? If we're lucky it'll allow Federal to drop the cost on similar civialian rounds. ;)

How-some-ever, since I only own one 40 S&W caliber handgun, I'll confess - I'm not too, too concerned.

[budroe]

I think all the major government agencies carry .40s these days. Almost all gencies quit the 9mm back in the 90s; I don't think anyone carried the .45. Also, a great deal of this ammo will probably end up at FLETC.

[jimfox]

I think all the major government agencies carry .40s these days. Almost all gencies quit the 9mm back in the 90s; I don't think anyone carried the .45. Also, a great deal of this ammo will probably end up at FLETC.

:D:D:D I've got a goodly supply of Hydra Shok(sp?) .45 ACP. My second most favorite caliber for CCW is the 9mm. Now in .38 Super I favor (for no particular reason except that they impress me) Win. Silvertips. For 9mm Luger? I favor Black Hills 124 grain HPs. Mostly because they were the most accurate in a specific Browning Hi-Power. Now that I'm toying with other Browning Hi-Powers, I'm going to have to re-assess that load.

The more contracts the gov lets, the better the market for us mokes. At least for a while.

[deputy]

:D:D:D I've got a goodly supply of Hydra Shok(sp?) .45 ACP. My second most favorite caliber for CCW is the 9mm. Now in .38 Super I favor (for no particular reason except that they impress me) Win. Silvertips. For 9mm Luger? I favor Black Hills 124 grain HPs. Mostly because they were the most accurate in a specific Browning Hi-Power. Now that I'm toying with other Browning Hi-Powers, I'm going to have to re-assess that load.

The more contracts the gov lets, the better the market for us mokes. At least for a while.


the feds are in general very, very heavy into the 40 s&w as the caliber issued.

as far as making the market better for us........i don't know. Its still for us a first come--first serve issue. With this contract, the govt is guarantee'd to be moved to the front of the line for "first serve" should they exercise that demand.

I still recall past ammo scares and how hard and expensive ammo became. The problem is i am guessing that as contracts or "guarantee'd" orders are placed, lesser demand and non-"guarantee'd" ammo production gets put on the back burner for standard commerical distribution. 380 acp, 38 spl, 357 mag, and even the 45 ACP can get scarce and production and components get re-directed to production of contract ammo.

Primers and their availability are definately a weak link.

[budroe]

Jim, back when we were issued high powers I always carried silver tip ammo. If we didn't have any in stock, I'd buy my own. I still like it a lot.

[festus]

That is what I was trying to say...
There is only so much manufacturing capacity...
The military already takes a lions share due to the middle east and Global War on Terror.
Now if the Federal Govt' want's to award a contract, the manufacturers have to do their damnedest to fulfill it as quickly as possible. That means that less popular lines will be shut down, retooled and spun back up to help with the Govt' production run. It also means more testing and government inspectors holding the manufacturers feet to the fire over extremely small issues that suddenly become insurmountable crevasses. All of this serves to slow down the manufacture of civilian ammo. Last time .380 couldn't be found because it was most likely the line retooled to help out with the Govt' order. Also simple things like primers and brass became scarce and that impacted reloading. Primers only have so many production centers and Uncle sugar get's to step to the front of the line due to contract requirements. Is it becoming clear yet?

Manufacturers were just barely keeping up with supply and demand due to gun sales. Now the Govt' awards a contract with a multi-year option that could possibly run int the hundreds of millions of rounds. This will effectively reduce the amount of rounds available to civilian shooters and start to cause runs on ammo in popular calibers and especially whatever calibers were retooled to boost the Govt' contract fulfillment lines. Retooling does not happen overnight. it takes time and a lot of work.

So yes, this will have an effect on us. It will mean higher prices again due to availability in a free market. It will mean as stocks diminish that we will be seeing empty shelves and possible rationing as the general public starts to panic and wants to get theirs before it is all gone...just look back to 2009 and you will see the same pattern emerging again. again I gotta ask when is the govt' gonna expend 450 million rounds? or even half that much?