[Dwayne]

The teaparty's biggest mistake is coming up. . . It will be the absolute worse mistake in its entirety, as well as showing its stupidity.

What is that mistake?????

"Endorsement"


If the Tea Party makes any kind of endorsement to the presidency of the USA, it has slumped just as low as Obama and its gang of feces.

What is an endorsement?

en·dorse·ment (µn-dôrs“m…nt) n.

1. The act of endorsing: The athlete was highly paid to do endorsements of products.

2. Something, such as a signature or voucher, that endorses or validates.

3. Approbation; sanction; support: The candidates competed for the union's endorsement.

4. An amendment to a contract, such as an insurance policy, by which the original terms are changed.


We are looking at 2 and 3. Endorseing through verbal communication as well as paper are all valid.

Anytime someone endorses something, they say they stand behind that "something". Whether it be an object, a person, or something else.

If the Tea party endorses *anyone* in this election, it will be stooping to new lows, compromising its integrity, and saying "This person is it! We sand behind what he is all about".

If the tea party stands behind Mitt Romney, they are just sacraficing their integrity and showing the world that they are not any better than the democrats.

Who should they endorse??? NO ONE!!!!!!

They should proudly stand up and say "We do NOT endorse any ONE of these Presidential Candidates, because every single of them are not even close to what we would want.

[Stevejet]

"Who should they endorse??? NO ONE!!!!!!

They should proudly stand up and say "We do NOT endorse any ONE of these Presidential Candidates, because every single of them are not even close to what we would want."


And Obama would smile like the Cheshire Cat as he mutters under his breath....."Second Term.....here I come."

This election is a "political war", be assured of THAT! Voting AGAINST what you perceive to be the more evil candidate in order to preserve your desired "way of life" is hardly "compromising your integrity".

Remember Donald Rumsfeld's remark....."You go to war with the army you have. Not the army you wish you had."

Indeed, we will all remember those who withheld their vote, or ammo if you will, in order to maintain their "personal integrity". That'll work! For Obama.

[Dwayne]

"Who should they endorse??? NO ONE!!!!!!

They should proudly stand up and say "We do NOT endorse any ONE of these Presidential Candidates, because every single of them are not even close to what we would want."


And Obama would smile like the Cheshire Cat as he mutters under his breath....."Second Term.....here I come."

This election is a "political war", be assured of THAT! Voting AGAINST what you perceive to be the more evil candidate in order to preserve your desired "way of life" is hardly "compromising your integrity".

Remember Donald Rumsfeld's remark....."You go to war with the army you have. Not the army you wish you had."

Indeed, we will all remember those who withheld their vote, or ammo if you will, in order to maintain their "personal integrity". That'll work! For Obama.

And the democrats will be smiling all the way to another election, because they will immediately point out that Romney was the GOP and Tea Party "Choice of the Year", and look what has happened to our economy. (as it continually slides downhill because of Obama.

This all falls back onto that thing of

"Electing anyone or anything that will stop Obama, nomatter how bad that evil is."

Or in other words:

If you don't vote for Romney, you have elected Obama.

That is our entire problem with this country. for over 80 years that I know of, the GOP has done nothing but compromise. Electing someone just to keep someone else out of office.

This country will never wake up to the fact that until we stop playing this compromise game, we will always be compromising with the devil, and the devil never loses.

If the Tea Party endorses Romeny, they have done nothing but sacrificing their integrity and objectives.

[Joe B.]

Another mistake of the Tea Party was coming out with such intensity right after an election and now you don't hear much of anything from them with another election looming on the horizon like a bad storm. It does no good to react afterward, we have to act before the buffoon gets re-elected or another buffoon takes his place. Almost too damn late now.

[deputy]

the various tea party organizations would do wise to not do any sort of public voluntary endorsments........and if asked who they will support merely point out the most conserative candidate and leave it at that. The media would love to get video or a sound bite that the tea party will not support romney.

the real strength is in choices for Congress.

i would really like to say to heck with the republicans and go 3rd party or just stay at home in absolute protest........but with obama, we are talking a whole new level and the potential for SCOTUS appointments that could change the balance of the court dramatically.....not to mention the most dangerous lame duck president in history that could literally destroy us.

[old trucker]

I must look at history a little different then most people,I don't think the tea party will be that big of a part in the president election and I don't think it will even be a close race like the polls say on TV.
I think this is a Ronald Reagan VS Jimmy Carter moment and will be a blow out.
I really believe people have had enough.Well...Lets hope so anyway.

[KathleenElsie]

I must look at history a little different then most people,I don't think the tea party will be that big of a part in the president election and I don't think it will even be a close race like the polls say on TV.
I think this is a Ronald Reagan VS Jimmy Carter moment and will be a blow out.
I really believe people have had enough.Well...Lets hope so anyway.
We can pray anyway.

[Chuck Langenderfer]

Better get to praying cause this is the worst of the voting against someone I have ever voted against.

The news media has done a wonderful job ruining our country. We now have two media approved candidates-Obummer and Willard-his real name.

Why do we allow it??

[Desertrat]

Better get to praying cause this is the worst of the voting against someone I have ever voted against.

The news media has done a wonderful job ruining our country. We now have two media approved candidates-Obummer and Willard-his real name.

Why do we allow it??

And why do we CONDONE and support it by voting? By not buying into a rigged game and refusing to vote, you send a message of, "NO CONFIDENCE" and "NONE of the above." Voting is a right, not a duty or an obligation, and you can choose to exercise that right or not as your conscience dictates. Truth be told, you might just be a better citizen for not voting than for voting. A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil. By not voting for one of two lousy choices, at least then, when the Republicrat that gets elected starts doing what every other President has done and screwing the citizens, and some nitwit says, "if you didn't vote, then you can't complain." You can say, "The hell I can't, I didn't vote to put him in office, you did. You're the one that has no right to complain."

[Popeye]

There is no "Tea Party". This nebulous 'political party' is the invention of the MSM. It doesn't exist except in the minds of those too lazy (or scared) to investigate and learn what is happening.

Don't believe me? Try registering to vote as a 'Tea Party' member. You can't. There is no Tea Party.

What is happening is that there is a revolution going on. Its not an armed revolution, no storming the ramparts nor blood in the streets, that's a losing proposition. Its a revolution consisting of citizens who are becoming involved in the political process at local levels, those levels where candidates for political office are chosen. Its about citizens retaking control of the political process. Its about citizens shaking off laziness and ennui, getting off their butts and taking peaceful and effective action.

Corrupt members of the 'political establishment' are scared. They see the beginnings of a slow moving but unstoppable revolution, a revolution that will remove them from power. They are doing everything and anything within their power to minimize and eventually destroy this revolution. They must if they are to remain in power.

For those who cry for 'change' but refuse to become involved in the political process at local levels, for those who complain about 'no good candidates' but only vote (or not) in elections, for those who buy into the MSM's (controlled by the corrupt members of the political establishment) denigration of this fledgling revolution; I say, "You are the problem. You are the reason the process is 'broken'. You are the reason our government is the way it is. Quit your carping and complaining and do something positive. Get up off your cynical, dead rumps. Pick the political party of your choice and get involved locally. Knock on doors, find folks with a like mindset, get them involved, eventually chose candidates of office who think the way you think/believe and take over the political party."

This is the revolution. This is the 'Tea Party'. Its entirely up to you. No one else.

[Desertrat]

Pick the party of your choice as long as it is a choice that is approved by the government. When you are limited to only two parties, which in reality are simply two sides of the same coin (might as well refer to them both as Republocrats as it is most accurate), THAT is NO choice. You are GIVEN, by the government the names of the ONLY 2 government approved choices who will be allowed by the government to be President. Those two have been anointed by the party leaders and are allow by the party leaders to be on the ballot. When decade after decade goes by without any viable, honest, trustworthy candidates and Presidency after Presidency goes by with little or no change and little or no difference between any of the occupants of the White House, and when congress and the senate have succeeded in giving away most of the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution to INDIVIDUAL American citizens, then clearly the people don't want it any other way or they have been effectively removed from the loop. To continue to "play the game" with NO hope of winning is a waste of time and effort, but the folks who run the game sure do like it when you participate; it keeps the locals calm and happy to make them think they have a chance to make a difference. More Kool aid?

When you sit in on a crooked poker game where all the players are cheating, you can't win unless you out-cheat the players, then you become just like them. If nobody sits in, then the game eventually shuts down and goes away because there are no suckers to fleece. Your other choice is to upturn the table, run the crooks off and start an honest game, but you don't do that by sitting at their table and playing by their (crooked) rules.

[Popeye]

You need to review your high school Government textbooks.

WE are the government! Unless we are too jaded, busy, lazy, bored, disgusted, stupid or (fill in the blank) to do our DUTY and become politically involved. Only those who do their duty and become politically involved get to choose who is in power and in charge of the many political parties.

No one begins at the top. We all get to start at the bottom and work our way up the ladder to power. This takes time. The revolution I mentioned has been underway for some time. Its just beginning to be noticed by those who are uninvolved and by those who are threatened.

We all have a choice. We can get politically involved, in the beginning at the local level, and assist in effective change or we can continue to make easily ignored noise and remain being ineffective but noisily POed.

[Vern Humphrey]

And Obama would smile like the Cheshire Cat as he mutters under his breath....."Second Term.....here I come."
You better believe it!

If I were Obama, I would have people posting that sort of criticism on every internet site.

[budroe]

For those who say they won't vote for any less than the perfect candidate, have you started checking out other countries for a place to settle?? Sitting around waiting for someone else to do your work for you isn't going to make things better. Things didn't get this way overnight. They're not going to get better overnight either. Getting obama, Reid and Pelosi out of office would be a great step in the right direction.

[Vern Humphrey]

A wise man once said, "Perfect is the deadly enemy of Good Enough."

[Desertrat]

It sounds real nice to say, and perhaps believe that "We" are the government. In theory, yes, that is the idea that the Founding Fathers had when they wrote the Constitution and established this nation, but things have changed drastically since that time. The Reality is nothing like the theory, and we have to deal with the reality of what politics in this nation has become, not what it is supposed to be.

I've been directly involved in the political process for several decades at the local, state and national levels and have studied beyond the public high school version of what they teach government is supposed to be, including college level political science. My father was a municipal judge and was in politics most of his life; I grew up around it. I was directly involved in state and local politics off and on for years and worked for two presidential campaigns, been to two national conventions as a State Delegate and have been to two presidential inaugurations and visited two Presidents in the White House. I know something of politics in this country.

There is a BIG difference between a duty and a right and the 19th Amendment clearly states that voting is a RIGHT, not a privilege or a duty (some countries require you to vote as a duty and have penalties for not - remember the old U.S.S.R.?). As free American citizens you have the choice to exercise any of your rights OR NOT.

I'm not looking for perfection in a candidate and it won't ever happen unless Jesus decides to run, but I refuse to support a candidate, or waste my vote on someone who I wouldn't want around my livestock, much less my kids, just because he's "the lesser of two evils"! He is still evil! When we are presented a choice of candidates who will either steal our taxes and give it to the welfare bums in order to get their votes, or steal our taxes and give it to their rich friends on Wall Street so they can get more money; it isn't a choice anyone would want to make. If you want to split hairs; a vote of no confidence is still a vote and in some cases, maybe the best choice of any when not given a candidate worth voting for in the first place. Where is the logic in putting a corrupt politician (a criminal) in office by stating that he is, "the lesser of two evils". I would rather be able to say, "Well, at least I didn't support him", than have to explain why I voted for him when he starts doing what we all knew he would when he gets in office.

I would rather walk away from the ballot box than become complicit with the crimes the victorious party will inevitably commit. The ONLY way to truly de-ligitimize unethical rulers is by not voting for them. If you continue to vote for "the lesser of two evils" instead of demanding candidates worthy of the office AND your vote, then every time the Republocrats steal from your children to prop up another corrupt financial institution, or start a war to "win hearts and minds", or take away another personal freedom or violate the Constitution, they will be doing it with your implicit backing.

[Dwayne]

You need to review your high school Government textbooks.

WE are the government! Unless we are too jaded, busy, lazy, bored, disgusted, stupid or (fill in the blank) to do our DUTY and become politically involved. Only those who do their duty and become politically involved get to choose who is in power and in charge of the many political parties.

No one begins at the top. We all get to start at the bottom and work our way up the ladder to power. This takes time. The revolution I mentioned has been underway for some time. Its just beginning to be noticed by those who are uninvolved and by those who are threatened.

We all have a choice. We can get politically involved, in the beginning at the local level, and assist in effective change or we can continue to make easily ignored noise and remain being ineffective but noisily POed.

I admire you Popeye, and those who believe this.

My worthless 2 cents is this. . . We are no more the government than we are Jesus Christ himself. Our total government is a complete joke, "We the people" no more run this worthless government than I can read your thoughts or anyone else.

It may have been setup like this from our founding fathers, but that was 200+ years ago. We have no more control of our government than the man in the moon.

Maybe, someday, when enough people wake up and see the fallacy that is going on, we can take control of our government, land, lives, and country again. But until then, our worthless government will keep saying "If you want change, vote". Ane the massses of people who believe that will keep right on voting as our country continues to control every aspects of their lives.

I am not looking for a perfect candidate, but I sure as hell ain't going to vote for Romney in any shape or form. ..

If enough people would say the hell with Romney and vote for someone else, just maybe we can get rid of this government controlled 2 party system. . .maybe.

[Vern Humphrey]

I'm not looking for perfection in a candidate and it won't ever happen unless Jesus decides to run, but I refuse to support a candidate, or waste my vote on someone who I wouldn't want around my livestock, much less my kids, just because he's "the lesser of two evils"! He is still evil!
Yes, but when you refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils, you automatically vote for the greater of those two evils -- and he's even more evil.

[Popeye]

When you refuse to get involved in candidate selection you condem yourself, and the rest of us, to voting for the 'lesser of two evils.'

[Vern Humphrey]

When you refuse to get involved in candidate selection you condem yourself, and the rest of us, to voting for the 'lesser of two evils.'
Amen!

And you should have been involved when your candidate was making his first run for dog-catcher, and helping him up the political ladder for the next 20 to 30 years. If you wait until just a year or so before the critical election, your chance of really influencing the outcome is minimal.

[old trucker]

Well sense Ron Paul looks like he not going to win the Republican nomination so most people on this thread say we should vote for the less on two evils.
Well I call B.S.
I will vote for the candidate I believe is best.Why,I'll tell you why.
Obama is actually a puppet,just like all the presidents before him with the exception of maybe Ronald Reagan.
If Mitt wins the presidency he will be the same puppet as Obama.Why,because the puppet masters and the ones who get a president elected are the ones with the money and you and I an't them.These so called puppet masters make puppets out of all of us by giving us a choice of two candidates that they control.
So when you vote for someone that is a lesser evil you are being controlled.
And "O" yes the puppet masters:
Corporations from the U.S. and around the world and that includes the Media.

Make a stand and vote for someone else.

[Popeye]

Make a stand. Make a difference. Get involved in the system.

Stop pissing and moaning about puppets and puppet masters, about the lesser of two evils, about no choices. Stop the negative and ineffective carping and complaining.

Get involved at your local level. Its how the system is designed to work. It still works.

[old trucker]

Make a stand. Make a difference. Get involved in the system.

Stop pissing and moaning about puppets and puppet masters, about the lesser of two evils, about no choices. Stop the negative and ineffective carping and complaining.

Get involved at your local level. Its how the system is designed to work. It still works.
Who said anything about no choices,I do have a choice to vote for who I want to vote for and these two Corporate candidates an't it.PERIOD!

[budroe]

So, vote for a third party candidate. When we're dealing with another four years of obama at least you can say you kept your integrity intact. I'm sure that will be all the consolation you'll need.

[Vern Humphrey]

Refusing to vote for a major party candidate is called "political self-castration."

[old trucker]

So let me get this right,what you guys are telling me is joint what I call the dark side of politics of the Dems. and Rep.and for what reason?To help get Mitt elected?
This guy Mitt might be rich but he no leader.It will all be for corporate gains and not so much for the people just like it is now.So I will vote for what I believe is at least integrity and not be controlled.

[Stevejet]

"Political self-castration with personal-integrity intact", nonetheless!

[old trucker]

"Political self-castration with personal-integrity intact", nonetheless!
It dose not matter who you vote for Steve,your state is just as blue as mine.
So your really going to make a difference,Hum.
So you think things will get better the way YOU,POPEYE,VERN,and BUDROE are thinking.
That kind of thinking is why were in the place were in now.IMO

[Stevejet]

Where is YOUR winning third party candidate?

And folks who VOTE AGAINST Democrats are not the reason we are in the situation we are.

[old trucker]

Where is YOUR winning third party candidate?

And folks who VOTE AGAINST Democrats are not the reason we are in the situation we are.
Sorry you don't get it,but Hay! it's been lively and fun.

[Dwayne]

Where is YOUR winning third party candidate?

And folks who VOTE AGAINST Democrats are not the reason we are in the situation we are.

Where is your winning candidate??? Or are you going to be just fine backing a worthless POS like Mitt, tell the world you are happy to have him represent you, and stand behind him 100 percent?

And when the world has to put up with him, I can say "I told you so", just like those who voted for Obama.

We have a two party system. A system put in by our government. You can vote all you want, I guarantee you it doesn't mean squat in the end. Our government will continue telling the people if you want change, then vote, and the sheeple will run to the voting booths doing exactly what the government wants. . . And we will continue our spiraling path downwards. Not as fast in some terms, and faster in other terms. ;)

[Vern Humphrey]

So let me get this right,what you guys are telling me is joint what I call the dark side of politics of the Dems. and Rep.and for what reason?To help get Mitt elected?
Let's face facts: Either Mitt Romney or Barak Obama will be elected in November. There is no third possibility.

Those who will not vote, or who will vote for a Third Party candidate will help Obama.
"Political self-castration with personal-integrity intact", nonetheless!
Eunuchs, by definition, have no personal integrity.

[Popeye]

There is no acceptable candidate because you gentlemen, and many others like you, would rather sit and complain about no acceptable candidates instead of getting involved and assisting in picking acceptable candidates.

[Dwayne]

There is no acceptable candidate because you gentlemen, and many others like you, would rather sit and complain about no acceptable candidates instead of getting involved and assisting in picking acceptable candidates.


No Popeye,

I just refuse to vote for some stinking worthless Commie, anti-American and Anti-Constitutional person, just because the media shoves him down our throats and says: GOP, we have highlighted your choice, brought him to limelight, and here you go! (Never mind he is worthless in all degrees)

I think of it this way. . .imagine if I could get you and others off the idea of voting for this commie and voting for someone else that the media doesn't pick. We just may have a new third party, and the GOP will suffer.

What you are telling me, is that if an election came up tomorrow between Hilary and Obama, I must vote for Hilary or Obama and be dam right happy with my wonderful choice. Then you are going to tell me it is because I wasn't involved to choose the best candidate. :roll:


I am sorry Popeye, like I said before, I truly admire your stance. But I woke up 3 decades ago. There is absolutely NOTHING that has happened in the last 3 decades that can even touch a single brain cell that I have been wrong for 30+ years.

I see a bunch of fools running out voting with the government in the lead, telling them if they want change, vote. And meanwhile, no matter which President is elected, we spiral downhill every year, blaming each other, and making excuses.

Someday people will wake up to the falseness of our government and finally realize the government is what runs the people, not the people running the government.

[Vern Humphrey]

There is no acceptable candidate because you gentlemen, and many others like you, would rather sit and complain about no acceptable candidates instead of getting involved and assisting in picking acceptable candidates.
Amen!

We have too many couch potato citizens, who sit on the couch, eat chips and drink beer and cheer for the team of their choice, but who do nothing to move the ball themselves.

It takes work to run a country. And those who for twenty or thirty years have done no work now complain about the political situation.

[JJFlash]

Amen!

We have too many couch potato citizens, who sit on the couch, eat chips and drink beer and cheer for the team of their choice, but who do nothing to move the ball themselves.

It takes work to run a country. And those who for twenty or thirty years have done no work now complain about the political situation.

I drew issue with that statement once before. Now, will just note that it's a tired tune.

I keep coming back to the Founding Fathers: "Hey, lads, our choices are good ol' King George and Vlad the Impaler. We don't like either one of them but Vlad is likely to stick a pike up your azz, while George will just continue to tax us into serfdom. He's obviously the lesser of two evils, so we should all support him". Point is, they had choices and took the high road. And it cost them dearly. They were principled men who took a stand.

We aren't taking a stand when we continue to participate in a completely corrupted process. Millions have been spent on the GOP campaign and did anyone EVER doubt that it was gonna be Mitt? I certainly didn't and have the posts to prove it. It was all a show. The outcome was pre-ordained.

Maybe if enough people stand on principle, we can restore the Republic. I'm not optimistic.

[Vern Humphrey]

I drew issue with that statement once before. Now, will just note that it's a tired tune.
People who don't work seem to get tired very quickly.

I keep coming back to the Founding Fathers: "Hey, lads, our choices are good ol' King George and Vlad the Impaler. We don't like either one of them but Vlad is likely to stick a pike up your azz, while George will just continue to tax us into serfdom. He's obviously the lesser of two evils, so we should all support him". Point is, they had choices and took the high road. And it cost them dearly. They were principled men who took a stand.
The Founding Fathers actually said that? You have a cite for it?

We aren't taking a stand when we continue to participate in a completely corrupted process. Millions have been spent on the GOP campaign and did anyone EVER doubt that it was gonna be Mitt? I certainly didn't and have the posts to prove it. It was all a show. The outcome was pre-ordained.
We aren't doing anything. Some of us have been working for years to get good men into office. Our biggest handicap is the apathy and -- yes, laziness -- of so many citizens, who seem to think the world owes them the ideal candidate without any work on their part.

Maybe if enough people stand on principle, we can restore the Republic. I'm not optimistic.
That's our problem -- too many people standing, and not enough working.

[Dwayne]

I drew issue with that statement once before. Now, will just note that it's a tired tune.

I keep coming back to the Founding Fathers: "Hey, lads, our choices are good ol' King George and Vlad the Impaler. We don't like either one of them but Vlad is likely to stick a pike up your azz, while George will just continue to tax us into serfdom. He's obviously the lesser of two evils, so we should all support him". Point is, they had choices and took the high road. And it cost them dearly. They were principled men who took a stand.

We aren't taking a stand when we continue to participate in a completely corrupted process. Millions have been spent on the GOP campaign and did anyone EVER doubt that it was gonna be Mitt? I certainly didn't and have the posts to prove it. It was all a show. The outcome was pre-ordained.

Maybe if enough people stand on principle, we can restore the Republic. I'm not optimistic.

:up::up::up:

Heck, I have posts probably close to 1 year old, right here on this forum that references Mitt as being the Candidate for the GOP. . . .

The most obvious thing in the world in my books. . .

1. Obama care is based upon his :bs:
2. Media started highlighting him as #1 and "the person to beat"
3. Most all the media has done nothing but highlight him, with very VERY little negative. But the other candidates that oppose him? Cain? DAMN!!!! He was strung up, choked, ripped apart, and destroyed within a few weeks. I couldn't hear enough bad about him, especially with a presumably girl that is a known liar, democrat, and ill character being shown as innocent and righteous. And they had to go back 15 years to attempt to make a story!

So, *if* it was true, for 15 years it was perfectly fine, but suddenly it is not. Go figure.


Nope, I saw the light 30 years ago. Maybe some day, enough people will see the light and do something about it.

If you try to compromise eating feces, you still are eating feces. And who is the winner? the one feeding you the feces with a smile. And what is behind the smile, is someone telling you to stand up, join the GOP, get involved, you are the reason why we have this feces, and you should be ashamed of yourself for voting for a candidate that is feeding people cake.

[JJFlash]

People who don't work seem to get tired very quickly.

Vern, you don't know enough about me to make such a statement. Oh, right, you really didn't say that to "me", didja? I'll give you your out ahead of time.

The Founding Fathers actually said that? You have a cite for it?

Yeah, I got a citation for that. Duh.

We aren't doing anything. Some of us have been working for years to get good men into office. Our biggest handicap is the apathy and -- yes, laziness -- of so many citizens, who seem to think the world owes them the ideal candidate without any work on their part.

Well, then, work harder, mate, cause if that's the best ya got..I mean, the proof is in the pudding, hey what? Just so ya know, I really don't need the "ideal" candidate. I'll settle for an honest non-Socialist, at this point.


That's our problem -- too many people standing, and not enough working.

But I do my best work while standing.

[Vern Humphrey]

If you try to compromise eating feces, you still are eating feces.
And if you sit around and moan and complain while the feces is being prepared, and do nothing about it, you still eat feces.

All the complaining in the world does nothing to change things. All the excuses in the world for not working does nothing to change things.

[HK4U]

It will once again come down to one of two puppets and the continued march toward destruction will move ever foward. Same song, differant verse.

[Dwayne]

And if you sit around and moan and complain while the feces is being prepared, and do nothing about it, you still eat feces.

Then why are you still eating feces? Why should I stick the stuff down my throat just because you claim it is my only choice?

All the complaining in the world does nothing to change things. All the excuses in the world for not working does nothing to change things.

And all the supporting of the eating of feces doesn't change a darn thing! The only work i have seen or heard about on this forum, as been complaining of not voting for a socialist to keep another socialist out. And if you do not agree with voting for a socialist, then you are the problem.

Sorry my friend. . .Someday you will wake up and realize what the real world is all about when it comes to running this country. You ain't going to like it. I am not laughing, you are not laughing, but there is one entity that is laughing their heads off. . .and that is the government.

You say "We are the government". I say :bs: that has long left us decades and decades ago. . . If you believe that, you have a very hard fall coming.

My question is: What does it take to remove your blinders to the government? You seem to have them removed on Obama.

I realize this is a very sad and sickening thing to look at, but when every flag points to one thing, how many flags does it take to see realization? How many flags did it take to see Obama? Why are those flags ignored in one aspect and not the other?

[HK4U]

I believe both major parites have been controled for a long time now and the citizens, at least most of them, operate under the delusion that they have a real choice in who is elected. We may have a choice between two men but whom ever is elected the control over them never changes.

[Dwayne]

I believe both major parites have been controled for a long time now and the citizens, at least most of them, operate under the delusion that they have a real choice in who is elected. We may have a choice between two men but whom ever is elected the controle over them never changes.

You are exactly right. Writing is all over the walls. I just find it really odd that the same people take off their blinders to see Obama, but they refuse to take off the blinders to see the government and what it is.

[Vern Humphrey]

I believe both major parites have been controled for a long time now and the citizens, at least most of them, operate under the delusion that they have a real choice in who is elected. We may have a choice between two men but whom ever is elected the control over them never changes.
The major parties are "controlled" by the people who do the work. Those people started years ago, recruiting and grooming candidates.

And any one of us here could have done the same, if we had had the get-up-and-go to do it.

[Dwayne]

The major parties are "controlled" by the people who do the work. Those people started years ago, recruiting and grooming candidates.

And any one of us here could have done the same, if we had had the get-up-and-go to do it.

Major parties are controlled by those who promise to give the best socialistic ideas to society. We have the Media to thank for that, along with all the politicians that use emotional words to persuade the stupid masses that listen to MSN, NBC, CBS, and all the other liberal media openings out there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs

[Vern Humphrey]

So what do they have conservatives don't have? Politics works both ways, you know -- if people are willing to work.

[Barkley]

So by refusing to vote, refusing to participate, you're somehow doing the good old USA a favor!?!? You just go ahead and sit on your butt feeling intellectually and morally superior while some of us try to kick the can the other way a bit. If people like you who sit and whine and complain about there being no "perfect" candidate have your way the country is truly doomed. You will NEVER get the perfect candidate. Hell if you're as picky hunting for a spouse you'll die single. Might be a good thing.

[Vern Humphrey]

So by refusing to vote, refusing to participate, you're somehow doing the good old USA a favor!?!? You just go ahead and sit on your butt feeling intellectually and morally superior while some of us try to kick the can the other way a bit. If people like you who sit and whine and complain about there being no "perfect" candidate have your way the country is truly doomed. You will NEVER get the perfect candidate. Hell if you're as picky hunting for a spouse you'll die single. Might be a good thing.

To paraphrase Kipling:

After the fight at Otterburn, before the ravens came
The witch-wife rode across the fern and called dead Percy's name.
"Stand up, stand up Northumberland. Stand up and tell me true.
If ever ye dealt in blade and brand, how went the fray with you?"
"Hither and yon," the Percy said. "As every fight must go
For some they fought, and some they fled. And some struck ne'er a blow."

[Dwayne]

So what do they have conservatives don't have? Politics works both ways, you know -- if people are willing to work.

Ding ding ding!!! We have a winner. . . . .

They have nothing the conservatives have and vise versa. . .they are all the same. So, voting for feces either side is just what you get feces.

And a year down the road when someone askes you or makes the comment "Well, YOU voted for this jerk, you deemed him a great hero and pushed all your power towards electing him, what do you have to say for yourself?" :D

the day we stop compromising with the democrats is the day this country will start to turn around. . . It ain't going to happen. you got 50 percent of the people sucking on the government, and them voting away their gravy ain't going to happen. And, of the remainging 50 percent, there are many will do not want to vote away the gravy, because when they get older, stop working, or have to start taking care of their own (instead of teh government), they don't want to fork out the money.

[Vern Humphrey]

Ding ding ding!!! We have a winner. . . . .

They have nothing the conservatives have and vise versa. . .they are all the same. So, voting for feces either side is just what you get feces.

And a year down the road when someone askes you or makes the comment "Well, YOU voted for this jerk, you deemed him a great hero and pushed all your power towards electing him, what do you have to say for yourself?" :D

the day we stop compromising with the democrats is the day this country will start to turn around. . . It ain't going to happen. you got 50 percent of the people sucking on the government, and them voting away their gravy ain't going to happen. And, of the remainging 50 percent, there are many will do not want to vote away the gravy, because when they get older, stop working, or have to start taking care of their own (instead of teh government), they don't want to fork out the money.
Well, I see the Obama Goons are coming, so I won't hold you -- break out your white flag and surrender.

[HK4U]

Lets see now, every few years we change one side of the coin for the other. Sometimes we get a Republcrat sometimes a demoncrat. Sometimes it is a march towards a socialistic NWO and sometimes a full gallop. Sometimes the players do everything to run up the national debt at an alarming rate. Sometimes they do it at a very alarming rate. The one thing that remains constant is neither side of the coin really does anything to reverse or even stop the slide toward destruction. We keep voting for one of the two major parties. Over and over again. But hey, we can at least boast that we voted for the "lesser of two evils".

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/albert_einstein.html)

[Stevejet]

The president of either party sets a tone for how the course of government should be steered while the re-elected Career Politicians go about their prime tasks of ensuring they remain Career Politicians.

[Vern Humphrey]

Lets see now, every few years we change one side of the coin for the other. Sometimes we get a Republcrat sometimes a demoncrat. Sometimes it is a march towards a socialistic NWO and sometimes a full gallop. Sometimes the players do everything to run up the national debt at an alarming rate. Sometimes they do it at a very alarming rate. The one thing that remains constant is neither side of the coin really does anything to reverse or even stop the slide toward destruction. We keep voting for one of the two major parties. Over and over again. But hey, we can at least boast that we voted for the "lesser of two evils".

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/albert_einstein.html)
And the same thing we keep doing over and over is sitting on our thumbs and not working to get candidates who will fulfil our expectations.

[Popeye]

Disgusted quitters who never lifted a finger to change the way thing are irritate me greatly.

You have been given a road map outlining how to change politics in this country by some of those who are working for change. You ignore it and continue carping and moaning, while doing nothing constructive.

FAT, LAZY AND STUPID!!

[HK4U]

Disgusted quitters who never lifted a finger to change the way thing are irritate me greatly.

You have been given a road map outlining how to change politics in this country by some of those who are working for change. You ignore it and continue carping and moaning, while doing nothing constructive.

FAT, LAZY AND STUPID!!

So choosing to not vote for one of the two puppets they throw us but rather looking at perhaps another choice is quiting? I disagree. I think doing the same thing over and over that got us into this miss and not seeing that it is not working is being FAT, LAZY AND STUPID. The reason we can not get a politition elected outside of the two headed beast is because everyone has made up their mind it can't be done so keeps doing the same old thing.

[JJFlash]

So choosing to not vote for one of the two puppets they throw us but rather looking at perhaps another choice is quiting? I disagree. I think doing the same thing over and over that got us into this miss and not seeing that it is not working is being FAT, LAZY AND STUPID. The reason we can not get a politition elected outside of the two headed beast is because everyone has made up their mind it can't be done so keeps doing the same old thing.

Hear! Hear! +1. Far as I'm concerned, the attitude of "vote for whomever "they" put up" is exactly the attitude which got us where we are today.

And I have many less-desirable qualities (I'm sure my wife could readily list 'em), but FAT, LAZY, and STUPID aren't included. I love these guys who make these general statements ("You don't know anything about how it all works"), then get put in their place (go back a few posts, you'll find it; hint: Desertrat), but choose to ignore their error, make no apologies, and continue down the same path. Kinda like the liberal/socialists do...and there you have it.

[Dwayne]

So choosing to not vote for one of the two puppets they throw us but rather looking at perhaps another choice is quiting? I disagree. I think doing the same thing over and over that got us into this miss and not seeing that it is not working is being FAT, LAZY AND STUPID. The reason we can not get a politition elected outside of the two headed beast is because everyone has made up their mind it can't be done so keeps doing the same old thing.

BEST FRIKKEN POST!!!

You are absolutely correct.

The people have been basically forced to either vote for this person or else have someone like Obama elected. This has been going on for a 100 years.

Those people who always take the compromise are missing one very important thing:

Democrats do not compromise, and anytime when you compromise, you lose. This has been going on for way too long. It is the exact reason why we are in the soup that we are in today.

Like I said before. . .It is easy to be a democrat. . .just promise the people everything, and you have all the followers you want. Anything less is compromise.

[Dwayne]

Hear! Hear! +1. Far as I'm concerned, the attitude of "vote for whomever "they" put up" is exactly the attitude which got us where we are today.

And I have many less-desirable qualities (I'm sure my wife could readily list 'em), but FAT, LAZY, and STUPID aren't included. I love these guys who make these general statements ("You don't know anything about how it all works"), then get put in their place (go back a few posts, you'll find it; hint: Desertrat), but choose to ignore their error, make no apologies, and continue down the same path. Kinda like the liberal/socialists do...and there you have it.

:up::up::up:

[HK4U]

Hear! Hear! +1. Far as I'm concerned, the attitude of "vote for whomever "they" put up" is exactly the attitude which got us where we are today.

And I have many less-desirable qualities (I'm sure my wife could readily list 'em), but FAT, LAZY, and STUPID aren't included. I love these guys who make these general statements ("You don't know anything about how it all works"), then get put in their place (go back a few posts, you'll find it; hint: Desertrat), but choose to ignore their error, make no apologies, and continue down the same path. Kinda like the liberal/socialists do...and there you have it.

:up::up::up::up:

[HK4U]

:up::up::up:


:up::up::up::up:

[budroe]

So you think sitting around with a thumb up your butt and a smile on your face is going to make things better?? Don't vote. Then sit around for another four years crying about how obama is putting it to you. Don't try to make things a bit incrementally better while pushing for an even better government. How many of those complaining have made a major effort campaigning and working for someone better?? I'm sure if we all just refuse to vote, the government will see what's going on and change to our way of thinking.

I certainly don't agree with everything Romney says - then again I don't know of any reasonable candidate running for the nomination who has done any better. A Romney win should translate into Republican control of the Senate and House. That should turn back many of the practices put into play by the current regime. Also, I much prefer having a Republican president (and Congress) in control when its time to appoint new Supreme Court members.

[HK4U]

So you think sitting around with a thumb up your butt and a smile on your face is going to make things better?? Don't vote. Then sit around for another four years crying about how obama is putting it to you. Don't try to make things a bit incrementally better while pushing for an even better government. How many of those complaining have made a major effort campaigning and working for someone better?? I'm sure if we all just refuse to vote, the government will see what's going on and change to our way of thinking.

I certainly don't agree with everything Romney says - then again I don't know of any reasonable candidate running for the nomination who has done any better. A Romney win should translate into Republican control of the Senate and House. That should turn back many of the practices put into play by the current regime. Also, I much prefer having a Republican president (and Congress) in control when its time to appoint new Supreme Court members.


I have worked on the local and state level. Been to the state conventions. Contributed money to local state and national candidates. Voted in every election sense Nixon. So I will put up my particitation up against anyone here. Just because I don't see the sense in any more voting for twiddle de or twiddle dumb does not mean I will be sitting with my thumb up my back side however it does not mean I will continue making the same mistakes over and over with the hope that somehow the results will turn out differant. I certanly do not need a civics leason from any one here.

[HK4U]

Sorry for the above rant but it gets a little tiresome being told that I am not doing enough to change the way things are heading.

[Dwayne]

So you think sitting around with a thumb up your butt and a smile on your face is going to make things better?? Don't vote. Then sit around for another four years crying about how obama is putting it to you.

And you think putting another Obama in office just because a stupid system put him there is going to make things better?

Why are you even thinking about voting for him? You already admit he is not any better than Obama, You already admit that there are better candidates out there, yet you are going to the polls with WHO'S thumb in their butt voting for a person that is worthless in the first place?

You compromise your position, you will reap the rewards. This :bs: compromise has been going for decades. And you still think it is going to change because you say it is? Because you keep electing candidates because they are only ones able to get a democrat out of office? When will you learn that this :bs: has been going on for years, and absolutely nothing has happened except the downward spiral of our country. You are not laughing, I am not laughing, but the Government is laughing its butt off, because people are constantly compromising and electing the very people it wants in office.

"We the people do not run the government" That is the biggest fallacy in the whole crazy country!

Tell me this. . .WHY do you take off the blinders to see who Obama is? But WHY do you NOT take off the blinders to see what this country TRULY is?


A Romney win should translate into Republican control of the Senate and House. That should turn back many of the practices put into play by the current regime. Also, I much prefer having a Republican president (and Congress) in control when its time to appoint new Supreme Court members.

<chuckle> I am glad you think this. . . . (as we still head towards destruction. . .

[JJFlash]

Alright, let's try this in a calm, rational fashion and puleeze lay off the name-calling. For the record, I'm 58 yrs old, can still bench press 300 lbs, have a BS, MS, PhD, CPA, and have always worked liked a frikkin dog (in case anyone cares i'm a "blue collar Phd", meaning I'm a carpenter by trade and know what it's like to break my back). At any rate, I will NOT lay back and let anyone call me fat, lazy, and stupid. And how well do you know someone from this forum anyway? It's the height of ignorance to make judgement calls like this on people YOU DON"T KNOW. So, let's quit that. It's what the socialists do when they get pinned in a corner; can't refute your argument, so you're a racist, hate women, whatever. A fool's game.

All that said, here is my viewpoint: If we stop supporting the GOP, I'm assuming at some point in time, they'll get the message and either become the true "Republicans" or they will be replaced as a party. Sure, in the meantime, we get Hussein for 4 more years and God only knows who, after that. So what? Are any of you guys gonna let em roll up your Constitutional rights totally? I'm sure as hell not. It'll be what it'll be until this country is restored or simply fades away as a Constituional Republic. I guess they'll have to kill me because I won't live in complete servitude to anyone.

I call this taking a "principled stand". STAND UP for what is right and let the chips fall where they may. What we've done constantly is just what is being propsed now: vote for the lesser of two evils. IT DOESN"T WORK, that is readily apparent. Why pursue that avenue any longer?

Stand up, tell the GOP to shove it...and then we'll go from there.

[HK4U]

Alright, let's try this in a calm, rational fashion and puleeze lay off the name-calling. For the record, I'm 58 yrs old, can still bench press 300 lbs, have a BS, MS, PhD, CPA, and have always worked liked a frikkin dog (in case anyone cares i'm a "blue collar Phd", meaning I'm a carpenter by trade and know what it's like to break my back). At any rate, I will NOT lay back and let anyone call me fat, lazy, and stupid. And how well do you know someone from this forum anyway? It's the height of ignorance to make judgement calls like this on people YOU DON"T KNOW. So, let's quit that. It's what the socialists do when they get pinned in a corner; can't refute your argument, so you're a racist, hate women, whatever. A fool's game.

All that said, here is my viewpoint: If we stop supporting the GOP, I'm assuming at some point in time, they'll get the message and either become the true "Republicans" or they will be replaced as a party. Sure, in the meantime, we get Hussein for 4 more years and God only knows who, after that. So what? Are any of you guys gonna let em roll up your Constitutional rights totally? I'm sure as hell not. It'll be what it'll be until this country is restored or simply fades away as a Constituional Republic. I guess they'll have to kill me because I won't live in complete servitude to anyone.

I call this taking a "principled stand". STAND UP for what is right and let the chips fall where they may. What we've done constantly is just what is being propsed now: vote for the lesser of two evils. IT DOESN"T WORK, that is readily apparent. Why pursue that avenue any longer?

Stand up, tell the GOP to shove it...and then we'll go from there.


In other words where is our line in the sand.

[budroe]

HK4U - you're absolutely right; you've worked for a better political system - whether we have one now or not. My first vote was in the Nixon- Humphrey election. Working for the government (MIL and civilian) my campaign work has been pretty much restricted to contributions and voting. There is obviously nothing wrong with voting for a 3rd party candidate. I think its a wasted vote (my opinion), but its obviously better than not voting at all. I think both political parties notice 3rd party votes - no one notices or cares about non-votes.

Dwayne - I didn't say Romney was no better than obama - I said he wasn't a major improvement over others running for the nomination (that would be Republican nomination). I think if you would check you would see the only supreme court justices we can depend on were put in their position by Republicans. And yes, I would much rather have Romney and the Republicans nominating the next justices. I agree, anyone who honestly doesn't think Romney would be an improvement over obama shouldn't vote.

If you think sitting back waiting for someone you totally agree with to win the nomination - good luck, but I wouldn't recommend holding your breath until this happens.



JJFlash -I don't think I called anyone fat, lazy or stupid. I just say if you don't vote, then don't sit around bitching about how things go in the country over the next four years. The republicans have a solid hold on the House. They are in a good position to take control of the Senate. With the way the country is going to hell in a handbasket (even worse than when comrade carter was in office) I'd say Romney has a good chance of winning the White House. I don't see the majority of republicans moving over to join anyone in a third political party.

You see what has happened in the country over the past four years. I hope you get your new political party up and running quickly - four more years of obama and you may not have a vote at all.

[JJFlash]

Disgusted quitters who never lifted a finger to change the way thing are irritate me greatly.

You have been given a road map outlining how to change politics in this country by some of those who are working for change. You ignore it and continue carping and moaning, while doing nothing constructive.

FAT, LAZY AND STUPID!!

Tell everyone how they should act and then call em names when they don't agree. I guess I'd like to know what the criteria for being a MOD is...cause, hell, I can do this!

[Blammer]

The "KNOW NOTHING PARTY" is alive and as silly as it was when it started up in 1845..... and died off in 1861:P
Intresting Party Platform: sounds a LOT like some people I Know around here;):P I will vote for who I please, but NOT voting is Pathetically STUPID!:down:

[Popeye]

Disgusted quitters who never lifted a finger to change the way thing are irritate me greatly.

You have been given a road map outlining how to change politics in this country by some of those who are working for change. You ignore it and continue carping and moaning, while doing nothing constructive.

Pissing and moaning is constructive?

Refusing to participate is constructive?

Quitting one's participation is constructive?

[Dwayne]

http://news.yahoo.com/rubios-immigration-push-potential-lift-gop-192656018.html

Florida Sen. Marco Rubio's push for a Republican version of immigration legislation looks like the answer to the election-year prayers of the GOP — and Mitt Romney.

Rubio — telegenic son of Cuban exiles and potential vice presidential pick — is pulling together a bill that would allow young illegal immigrants to remain in the United States but denies them citizenship,

an initial step in the drawn-out, divisive fight over immigration policy and the fate of the 11 million people here illegally.


The freshman senator calls his evolving legislation a conservative alternative to the DREAM Act

— the Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors measure. That Democratic-backed bill, which is overwhelmingly popular with Hispanics, would provide a pathway to citizenship to children in the United States illegally if they attend college or join the military. The measure came close to passage in December 2010 but has languished since then.


"We have to come up with an immigration system that honors both our legacy as a nation of laws and also our legacy as a nation of immigrants," Rubio told The Associated Press on Tuesday.
An immigration plan from Rubio, the GOP's best-known Hispanic, could help Republicans make some headway

with the fastest growing minority group and its 21 million eligible voters, many concentrated in the contested presidential battleground states of Florida, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and Colorado.
Democrats maintain a significant political advantage with Hispanics, numbers that were only strengthened by the harsh rhetoric from Republican presidential candidates in this year's primary.

Hispanics overwhelmingly backed Barack Obama over Republican presidential nominee John McCain, 67-31 percent, in the 2008 presidential race and they favored Democratic congressional candidates 60-38 percent in 2010, according to exit polling. A Pew Research Center survey out Tuesday showed Obama with a solid edge over Romney among Hispanic registered voters, 67-27 percent.




And there you have it. . . The republicans caving in and "compromising" again and again.

This compromising has destroyed our country from day one, and *any* kind of compromising is a guaranteed destruction to our country.

I seriously can't tell the difference between the democrats or the republicans. . .

It is all about money, staying in office, screwing the citizens, and getting votes.


Meanwhile, we are offering to educate these stupid worthless POS illegals in our country, or pay them.

And it ticks me off that I am going to have to foot the bill.

[HK4U]

http://news.yahoo.com/rubios-immigration-push-potential-lift-gop-192656018.html



And there you have it. . . The republicans caving in and "compromising" again and again.

This compromising has destroyed our country from day one, and *any* kind of compromising is a guaranteed destruction to our country.

I seriously can't tell the difference between the democrats or the republicans. . .

It is all about money, staying in office, screwing the citizens, and getting votes.


Meanwhile, we are offering to educate these stupid worthless POS illegals in our country, or pay them.

And it ticks me off that I am going to have to foot the bill.

Exactly.:up:

[Dwayne]

HK4U - you're absolutely right; you've worked for a better political system - whether we have one now or not. My first vote was in the Nixon- Humphrey election. Working for the government (MIL and civilian) my campaign work has been pretty much restricted to contributions and voting. There is obviously nothing wrong with voting for a 3rd party candidate. I think its a wasted vote (my opinion), but its obviously better than not voting at all. I think both political parties notice 3rd party votes - no one notices or cares about non-votes.

Dwayne - I didn't say Romney was no better than obama - I said he wasn't a major improvement over others running for the nomination (that would be Republican nomination). I think if you would check you would see the only supreme court justices we can depend on were put in their position by Republicans. And yes, I would much rather have Romney and the Republicans nominating the next justices. I agree, anyone who honestly doesn't think Romney would be an improvement over obama shouldn't vote.

If you think sitting back waiting for someone you totally agree with to win the nomination - good luck, but I wouldn't recommend holding your breath until this happens.



JJFlash -I don't think I called anyone fat, lazy or stupid. I just say if you don't vote, then don't sit around bitching about how things go in the country over the next four years. The republicans have a solid hold on the House. They are in a good position to take control of the Senate. With the way the country is going to hell in a handbasket (even worse than when comrade carter was in office) I'd say Romney has a good chance of winning the White House. I don't see the majority of republicans moving over to join anyone in a third political party.

You see what has happened in the country over the past four years. I hope you get your new political party up and running quickly - four more years of obama and you may not have a vote at all.

That was one hell of a post if you ask me Budroe. .. A very very good post in all aspects. And I can agree with all of it, as well as agree with your position too. . .(Eventhough I may not like it).

In some ways, I really don't think third party voters are even looked at. (I don't know this). I guess if you consider independent people third party, then they are looked at, but I don't consider independent people as third party. It seems to me, the independents usually vote democrat anyhow for the most part.

I also believe it is the independents that have the capabilities to elect a conservative. you have 50 percent democrats, 35 percent republicans and about 15 percent independents. . . They are the swing vote for the conservatives for the most part.


Personally, I hope that we DON"T get to vote because of Obama. I would be as happy as a lark if Obama pulled some kind of stunt as such, because it would finally put a end to the :bs: this government has been shoving down our throats. Maybe . . .just maybe. . .it would finally wake up this stupid nation of ours to see that the democrats AND rebublicans are destroying this country, and that the agenda is NOT what is really happening on TV, but the agenda is to destroy our country, destroy our constitution, and destroy our liberties.

We can get rid of this lies and transparency that has been happening for the last 80 to 100 years. Maybe, just maybe the people will stand up against the very monster they are feeding, the very monster they have created, the very monster that rules them with false pretenses, and the very monster that plays games with their lives in every aspect.

[Stevejet]

And George Washington warned his countrymen about the dangers of political parties. Many of our founding fathers had a well founded sense of human nature and the pitfalls of it and "group-think".

[HK4U]

And George Washington warned his countrymen about the dangers of political parties. Many of our founding fathers had a well founded sense of human nature and the pitfalls of it and "group-think".

A lot of things they warned us about. To bad we are not smart enough to listen. Washington warned us about getting involved with the affairs of other countries. Today we can't stay out of the affairs of other countries.

[Dwayne]

And George Washington warned his countrymen about the dangers of political parties. Many of our founding fathers had a well founded sense of human nature and the pitfalls of it and "group-think".

yes. . .

Our founding fathers lived through it. . .they knew just what would happen, and tried to prevent it..

Today. . . our constitution ignored and trashed. Yet our country is full of stupid people who don't even know what the constitution is all about, let alone what is happening around them.

[budroe]

Guys, before I'd refuse to vote I'd do a write in for Alfred E. Neuman!!:D:D

[Dwayne]

Guys, before I'd refuse to vote I'd do a write in for Alfred E. Neuman!!:D:D
:D:D:D:D

[HK4U]

Guys, before I'd refuse to vote I'd do a write in for Alfred E. Neuman!!:D:D

There is no doubt he would be an improvement over Obummer and the vast majority in both parties.

[budroe]

Alfred has the commanding presence of a natural leader!!!

[Dwayne]

Alfred has the commanding presence of a natural leader!!!

:rotf:

This may be funny, but I can only say one thing. . .

I personally think he would make a far better leader than these two goons we have running for office right now!!!

[Popeye]

When action is divorced from consequences, no one is happy with the ultimate outcome.

[HK4U]

Yes, but when you refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils, you automatically vote for the greater of those two evils -- and he's even more evil.


By voting for the lesser of two evils you are only voting for whom the propaganda machine has convinced you is the lesser of two evil. Once in office we then find out he is really just as evil as the other.

[Dwayne]

By voting for the lesser of two evils you are only voting for whom the propaganda machine has convinced you is the lesser of two evil. Once in office we then find out he is really just as evil as the other.

It works like this. . .

Some folks would rather vote Hitler in, than to have another term or two of Stalin. When doing so, they are proud voters and will rant and rave how much better Hitler is, because Hitler is just a little better than Stalin, and was picked by the GOP (German Opportunity Party) as the man to "change the country" to a better place to live.

But, if you vote Hitler in, our country will turn itself around!

;):D

[Vern Humphrey]

By voting for the lesser of two evils you are only voting for whom the propaganda machine has convinced you is the lesser of two evil. Once in office we then find out he is really just as evil as the other.

Well, if you don't trust yourself to be able to sort through the conflicting claims and counter-claims made by the candidates and the media, maybe you're right -- you shouldn't vote.

[HK4U]

Well, if you don't trust yourself to be able to sort through the conflicting claims and counter-claims made by the candidates and the media, maybe you're right -- you shouldn't vote.

I never said I would not vote. I just said I might not vote for twiddle dee or dwiddle dumb. I may very well vote third party. I trust myself enough to not fall for one of the puppets they offer.

[Vern Humphrey]

I never said I would not vote. I just said I might not vote for twiddle dee or dwiddle dumb. I may very well vote third party. I trust myself enough to not fall for one of the puppets they offer.
Well, if you can't trust yourself to determine who the greatest evil is of the two major party candidates, how can you trust yourself to determine that a Third Party candidate is better?

[HK4U]

Because I have seen the results of the continued support of the two party puppet machine has got us. To continue to make the same old mistake over and over again will not get us new results.

[Vern Humphrey]

Because I have seen the results of the continued support of the two party puppet machine has got us. To continue to make the same old mistake over and over again will not get us new results.
Then clearly you don't understand what you saw.

The candidates are your responsibility. Each and every one of us should be looking for, recruiting and supporting candidates at every level, from dog-catcher to President.

If you don't like the candidates we have now, then what were you doing twenty years ago to recruit good candidates and push them up the political chain?

[Dwayne]

Then clearly you don't understand what you saw.


He knows exactly what he sees. It has been happening for at least 80 years that I can count. . . probably more. My question is, why can't you take off your blinders as see it? You have taken off your blinders to see Obama. What does it take to take off your blinders to the :bs: this government is feeding you?:popcorn:


The candidates are your responsibility. Each and every one of us should be looking for, recruiting and supporting candidates at every level, from dog-catcher to President.
Thank you Vern,

For Grooming Mitt Romney to the GOP candidate. . .I appreciate that. ;)

If you don't like the candidates we have now, then what were you doing twenty years ago to recruit good candidates and push them up the political chain?
Same thing you were doing 20 years ago. . .Watching you groom Mitt to the office, while telling other people the problem is their fault, and if we don't do it your way, it is our fault. ;):D

Here we are today. . .Mitt Romney. Wonderful POS, groomed 20 years ago by people who make up the excuses today, that it only does good if you vote for the GOP candidate party member.


In all reality, I totally understand your side. I respect it, and when I was younger, I would vote exactly like you. Anything to get Obama out. My eyes were awoke in the 1980's. on government trust.

[HK4U]

[QUOTE=Vern Humphrey;1234681]Then clearly you don't understand what you saw.
[QUOTE]

He knows exactly what he sees. It has been happening for at least 80 years that I can count. . . probably more. My question is, why can't you take off your blinders as see it? You have taken off your blinders to see Obama. What does it take to take off your blinders to the :bs: this government is feeding you?:popcorn:



Thank you Vern,



For Grooming Mitt Romney to the GOP candidate. . .I appreciate that. ;)



Same thing you were doing 20 years ago. . .Watching you groom Mitt to the office, while telling other people the problem is their fault, and if we don't do it your way, it is our fault. ;):D

Here we are today. . .Mitt Romney. Wonderful POS, groomed 20 years ago by people who make up the excuses today, that it only does good if you vote for the GOP candidate party member.


In all reality, I totally understand your side. I respect it, and when I was younger, I would vote exactly like you. Anything to get Obama out. My eyes were awoke in the 1980's. on government trust.


+1 The puppet masters give us a choice between two of their hand picked puppets and we are so thankful. And the beat goes on. And on. And on. And on............

[Vern Humphrey]

He knows exactly what he sees. It has been happening for at least 80 years that I can count. . . probably more. My question is, why can't you take off your blinders as see it? You have taken off your blinders to see Obama. What does it take to take off your blinders to the this government is feeding you?
That makes two people who don't understand how the system works.

For Grooming Mitt Romney to the GOP candidate. . .I appreciate that.
If you don't like Mitt Romney, who did you groom?

[JJFlash]

That makes two people who don't understand how the system works.

If you don't like Mitt Romney, who did you groom?

Might as well make it three. I, apparently, don't know my azz from a hole in the ground when it comes to politics since I, too, refuse to swallow what the corrupt parties are trying to ram down my throat. All those college courses I took, all the reading I do, all my activities in local politics...all for naught. I feel so stupid. :P

Well, I'm sure the Panthers will be staged at various polling stations (cause that's legal now, you see; there's that corrupt gov't thing again); I'll ask them to help me vote the "right" way.

[HK4U]

I think we three know exactly how it works. I think it is Vern that does not know. There are none so blind as they that will not see. Anyway guys I think this discussion is useless so on to other things.

[Dwayne]

I think we three know exactly how it works. I think it is Vern that does not know. There are none so blind as they that will not see. Anyway guys I think this discussion is useless so on to other things.

What is kinda neat about this discussion, is there are only two views. . . And I think it is really neat to see both sides of the view discussed so very well.

I can also say that I have been on BOTH sides of the issues equally as avid. But when I took my blinders off, THAT is what wrote the story. Sad part of it all, I can't find any flags that tell me differently.

My question is to those who continually harp on voting partylines:

1. How many red flags are you going to ignore?
2. When are you going to take your blinders off?

These may sound like asinine questions, but you only have to take off your blinders, look at history, look at what has happened in the last 100 years, look at our eroding freedoms, look at the corruptness of our government in EVERY aspect, and follow the money. . .

This whole government has you by the gonads. And this government is NOT ran by "We the people". Not even close. Thinking so is so asinine.

[Vern Humphrey]

Might as well make it three. I, apparently, don't know my azz from a hole in the ground when it comes to politics since I, too, refuse to swallow what the corrupt parties are trying to ram down my throat. All those college courses I took, all the reading I do, all my activities in local politics...all for naught. I feel so stupid. :P

Well, I'm sure the Panthers will be staged at various polling stations (cause that's legal now, you see; there's that corrupt gov't thing again); I'll ask them to help me vote the "right" way.
Far be it from me to dispute your own low opinion of your political savvy.:D

Guys, you're starting to sound like Welfare Queens -- "We're entitled! They have to give us what we want! How dare you say we have to work for it!"

[JJFlash]

Far be it from me to dispute your own low opinion of your political savvy.:D

Guys, you're starting to sound like Welfare Queens -- "We're entitled! They have to give us what we want! How dare you say we have to work for it!"

Now, you're starting to sound like my wife! LOL!

Vern, for the umpteenth time, I don't think any of us mind hard work, but personally, I refuse to play when the game is rigged, that's all. Proof: Day ONE, I said Mitt WILL be the candidate cause that's what the "machine" wanted. Months and millions of dollars later, guess who's the candidate? Nuff said. At least for me.

[old trucker]

After listening to all of this I'm standing on my own convictions.
I don't know what grooming is,but if it's getting the word out about a candidate and giving your time and money to there candidacy then I guess I've done my part and believe me it wasn't Mitt.
So I'm guessing I'm number four.:)

[Vern Humphrey]

Now, you're starting to sound like my wife! LOL!

Vern, for the umpteenth time, I don't think any of us mind hard work,
Then why don't we quit bitchin' and start working?

but personally, I refuse to play when the game is rigged, that's all. Proof: Day ONE, I said Mitt WILL be the candidate cause that's what the "machine" wanted. Months and millions of dollars later, guess who's the candidate? Nuff said. At least for me.
Did you support alternative candidates vigorously? Did you hold fund raisters for the candidate of your choice? Did you vote in the primary? Did you make sure your friends voted? Did you have poll watchers checking off the names of people thought to favor your candidate and have a phone bank calling those who didn't show up at the polls?

The "machine" had nothing to do with the outcome -- the peolple supporting the various candidates decided who would be the nominee. If your choice didn't win, it wasn't some sinister plot -- it was lack of support.

[Desertrat]

Then why don't we quit bitchin' and start working?
Some of us tried working for years, but decided to stop when we saw that it was not working.

Did you support alternative candidates vigorously?
Yes, on many occasions and sometimes we won.

Did you hold fund raisters for the candidate of your choice? Yes, and even contributed my own time and money.

Did you vote in the primary? Yes, and was a voting deligate at 2 national conventions.

Did you make sure your friends voted? Yes, and even drove a van to take people to the polls.

Did you have poll watchers checking off the names of people thought to favor your candidate and have a phone bank calling those who didn't show up at the polls? Not personally, but I worked with the local party which did.

The "machine" had nothing to do with the outcome -- No, my friend, the "machine" had and has EVERYTHING to do with the outcome. I grew up in the South when there were political "Bosses" who decided who could hold office (who could run). Bill Clinton got to be Attorney General of Arkansas because he was approved by the then political "Boss" of the Arkansas Democratic party, Q. Byrum Hurst. We don't still have as many "Bosses" these days, but they are out there. Today, there are "committees" who perform the same function.

the peolple supporting the various candidates decided who would be the nominee. Sorry Vern, but only in your dreams. I'm glad you can still believe, but I've seen and experienced too much first hand to buy into the B.S. any longer.

If your choice didn't win, it wasn't some sinister plot -- it was lack of support. Sometimes your choice does win, but not because of anything you do, and it is arrogance or ignorance to believe otherwise. You have to win once in a while; even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I gave up on playing in a crooked game with crooks where the only way to win was to become a crook and cheat too. I have some ethics and morals left and realized that I could continue to play and perhaps win, but at what cost? By not playing, at least I am not contributing to the perpetuation of a crooked game or supporting evil, either the lesser or greater of two, or three or more. You say we have to play (vote) in order to fix the system, I say the system is broken and all the voting you do over and over and over won't fix it. How many times does is take? We should have started 20 years ago? Some of us did, but saw the futility of if after working our butts off. Burn me once, shame on me, Burn me twice...

Einstein said, "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity." NO, I'm not calling anyone insane, I'm just wondering how long you have to keep playing and losing at the "game" before you realize it's not going to change.

[Vern Humphrey]

Did you support alternative candidates vigorously?
Yes, on many occasions and sometimes we won.
Then you have proven you can win. So let's drop the conspiracy theories and capitalize on success.

[Dwayne]

Then you have proven you can win. So let's drop the conspiracy theories and capitalize on success.

ROFL. . . NO, he has not proven you can win. He is saying by doing nothing, your choice of candidate can win at times. . .whether you vote for him or not. That is totally different than running around with your head chopped off telling people that if you don't vote for XYZ, you are a wasting your vote. That was the whole purpose of the clock analysis. doing nothing will allow the clock to be right at least twice a day.

Someday you will wake up and see what reality is. . .

This whole government is a fraud. This whole election thing is a fraud. "We the people" is the biggest fraud known to mankind for the last (at least) 100 years. The hand writing has been all over the walls for decades. . . why don't you take off your blinders and read it? You did it with Obama.

I have often wondered if people can actually handle the truth when they do take off the blinders. Thus the blinders never come off.

[Popeye]

This whole government is a fraud. This whole election thing is a fraud. "We the people" is the biggest fraud known to mankind for the last (at least) 100 years. The hand writing has been all over the walls for decades.

When citizens stop participating, except to vote, the government becomes a fraud Elections becaome a fraud because citizens stop participation in the slecetion process. The people, read citizens, have become too fat, lazy and stupid to give a rip except to complain and invent conspiracy theories when things don't turn out the way they want.

[JJFlash]

When citizens stop participating, except to vote, the government becomes a fraud Elections becaome a fraud because citizens stop participation in the slecetion process. The people, read citizens, have become too fat, lazy and stupid to give a rip except to complain and invent conspiracy theories when things don't turn out the way they want.

Um, maybe. But we'll see how many of those "fat, lazy and stupid" people come out to literally fight for their rights after all the trim, hard-working and smart sheep have voted them away.

[Dwayne]

When citizens stop participating, except to vote, the government becomes a fraud Elections becaome a fraud because citizens stop participation in the slecetion process. The people, read citizens, have become too fat, lazy and stupid to give a rip except to complain and invent conspiracy theories when things don't turn out the way they want.

There is that conspiracy thingy majig. There is no conspiracy about what is going on. The problem lies in the fact that we have too many brain washed people (by the government) that are saying "vote, vote, vote" just to replace one commie with another commie, and then are telling the people to be happy with their vote. Other than that it is a wasted vote.

Imagine. . .just imagine. . .if all these kinds of people would finally wake up and say the heck with the GOP and vote for (lets say) Ron Paul. Would that not send and huge message to the GOP and the Democrats? Would that not stop the two party system in its tracks? I could use the same ol excuse Vern uses : "At some point, you can win." This basically means voting for someone other than the GOP trash will win at some point, right? ;):D

So which is better, voting to where you "can" win, or voting another commie into office, just because the GOP and media places this commie on the ballet.

Heck, the media has been grooming Mitt for at LEAST a year or more. I had him pegged over a year ago. . .one of the easist and most brain dead choice of them all.

I have always wondered why people can't see the writing on the wall. Where in the world do they still see and feel "We the People control the government"?

I see nothing but "We the Government control the people" with a false ballet box. . .that illegals can vote, dead people can vote, dogs and cats can vote, President supported groups can illegally provide ficticious votes, hell. . we can have goons with clubs at voting booths for persuasion, and a bunch of people that are hanging their very lives on a false system that is controlled not by them, but by the government itself. . .which is corrupt in very way I know of.

But don't worry. . .We have conservative parties and people "Endorsing" Mitt Romney. Oh what a honor to do so. :down: Just tells me how and why our government will always go down the tubes and never return.

If the GOP candidate was Hitler and the Dog candidate was Stalin. . .all those stupid conservatives will be "endorsing" Hitler just to get Stalin out. And they wonder why they are not any better than the democrats.

We are living in a 1 party system. That party is divided into two systems. . .heckle and Jeckle. As long as the party has people focused on one of the two bird brains, they can laugh all they want. . .Its like a fox in a hen house.

The writing is all over the wall Popeye. . why don't you see it? Why can't you look back the past 100 years and see the corruption, lies, and falseness this government has put upon the people? There is not one green flag for the people. It is all about money, control of the people, taking away our freedoms, taxing, creating welfare for more taxes, moving personal responsibility from the people to the government, destruction of the family, controlling our money. Womb to tomb. . .that's it!

[HK4U]

There may be a conspiracy but that does not mean it is not for real. Why some people are so afraid of the word conspiracy is beyond me. Often times the likelyhood of something being a conspiracy makes a whole lot more sense than to to believe that eveything happens by mere random chance.

[Vern Humphrey]

ROFL. . . NO, he has not proven you can win.
ROFL . . . Yes he has.

You're starting to remind me of something me sainted Irish Mither used to say, "A lazy man will work himself into a lather to get out of work."

[HK4U]

ROFL . . . Yes he has.

You're starting to remind me of something me sainted Irish Mither used to say, "A lazy man will work himself into a lather to get out of work."

You are never going to come around to our way of thinking and we sure as heck are never going to come around to yours.

[Vern Humphrey]

You are never going to come around to our way of thinking and we sure as heck are never going to come around to yours.
You would if you'd stop and think things through.;)

[HK4U]

You would if you'd stop and think things through.;)

Sorry Vern I have and that is why I don't.

[Vern Humphrey]

There's a contradiction in terms!

[Barkley]

So why don't some of you just sit back, wait for things to fall apart so you can start shooting. God knows why but it's what you obviously want and feel damn smug about wanting it. In the mean time some of us will work to try and improve things and seriously disappoint you.

PS: It's obvious some people want a shooting civil war and are actually stupid enough to think they'll either win or things will get better. I'm getting out of this thread before I say what I really think about a few people.

[HK4U]

So why don't some of you just sit back, wait for things to fall apart so you can start shooting. God knows why but it's what you obviously want and feel damn smug about wanting it. In the mean time some of us will work to try and improve things and seriously disappoint you.

PS: It's obvious some people want a shooting civil war and are actually stupid enough to think they'll either win or things will get better. I'm getting out of this thread before I say what I really think about a few people.

I don't know who you are refering to but if you mean me you can not have read any of my posts very close. Anyway I will try and make it as plane as I can. 1st. I sure as heck do not want any kind of war civil or other wise. If that happens it will be far worse than the first one. It may happen. The way things are going it would not be a big surprise but I pray it doesn't. 2nd. As I have said before, and pretty clearly I think, I have voted every election sense I was old enough to vote and I did not say I would not vote this time. I just said I might not vote for the lesser of two evils. I will see what happens come November. I may vote third party. It will depend on a lot of things including who the third party candidate is. Remember you are entitled to your opinion but in the end that is all it is.

[Vern Humphrey]

So why don't some of you just sit back, wait for things to fall apart so you can start shooting. God knows why but it's what you obviously want and feel damn smug about wanting it. In the mean time some of us will work to try and improve things and seriously disappoint you.

PS: It's obvious some people want a shooting civil war and are actually stupid enough to think they'll either win or things will get better. I'm getting out of this thread before I say what I really think about a few people.
The people who want a shooting war have never been in a shooting war.

I have and I guarantee, none of these couch potatoes will be anywhere near the firing line.

[HK4U]

The people who want a shooting war have never been in a shooting war.

I have and I guarantee, none of these couch potatoes will be anywhere near the firing line.

And who are the couch potatoes you are refering to. You seem to think you know a lot about everyone. Are you clairvoyant?

[Dwayne]

And who are the couch potatoes you are refering to. You seem to think you know a lot about everyone. Are you clairvoyant?

:up::up:

We are a couch potato because we do not think like he does. We are considered lazy when it comes to politics.

Until The people wake up and see the real truth of what is going on, they will continue to be brainwashed into thinking that they can vote their way into success. Sad part of it all, is that they continue to ignore those red flags year after year.
just do something as easy as looking back into history for the last hundred years is to tough for them. There is not one green flag for this country in the last eighty years that I know of, and probably more.

Meanwhile, they have fallen for the same old government harping of lf you want change vote!!!!

[Dwayne]

You would if you'd stop and think things through.;)

And the day you take your blinders off, will be the day you will realize
This whole thing is a fraud.

[Dwayne]

I don't know who you are refering to but if you mean me you can not have read any of my posts very close. Anyway I will try and make it as plane as I can. 1st. I sure as heck do not want any kind of war civil or other wise. If that happens it will be far worse than the first one. It may happen. The way things are going it would not be a big surprise but I pray it doesn't. 2nd. As I have said before, and pretty clearly I think, I have voted every election sense I was old enough to vote and I did not say I would not vote this time. I just said I might not vote for the lesser of two evils. I will see what happens come November. I may vote third party. It will depend on a lot of things including who the third party candidate is. Remember you are entitled to your opinion but in the end that is all it is.

You know, a while back I read that a couple of characteristics of liberals is to accuse them of things, call them names, and contine telling them they are wrongl without any backing. Just. Saying. ..

[old trucker]

Voting conservative in a liberal state will not get you anywhere.All the electoral votes will go to the liberals.That is a fact.
Ron Paul will not win and he will never run again,but he did get his massage out to 10's of millions of voters.
So in my case voting for Gary Johnson or someone else in large numbers that live in liberal states will help people running in third parties next time.(hopefully)
It's highly unlikely Mitt will win the three west coast states.
It's not about your vote,It's about the Electoral College.

http://www.burtprelutsky.com/

[Vern Humphrey]

Voting conservative in a liberal state will not get you anywhere.All the electoral votes will go to the liberals.That is a fact.
Ron Paul will not win and he will never run again,but he did get his massage out to 10's of millions of voters.
So in my case voting for Gary Johnson or someone else in large numbers that live in liberal states will help people running in third parties next time.(hopefully)
It's highly unlikely Mitt will win the three west coast states.
It's not about your vote,It's about the Electoral College.

http://www.burtprelutsky.com/
A defeat is a defeat.

And when a politician is soundly defenated the message is, "His ideas can't win -- so we need to change our politics to be more left wing."

That's why you need to work to win. Note the two operative words, work and win. They go together.

As for this, "Voting conservative in a liberal state will not get you anywhere." I can prove you're wrong -- there was no more Democrat state than Virginia -- but while I was there working in the Republican Party, we broke the old Byrd Machine and today Virginia is more Republican than Democrat.

Arkansas was just as Democrat as Virginia. The First District had never had a Republican Congressman -- I ran and lost, but made the crack in the wall. We now have a Republican Congressman -- in fact, four out of our six members of Congress (four Representatives and two Senators) are Republicans.

This county, Stone County, never elected a Repbulican -- until 2006 when we elected our first Republican JP. In 2008, we reelected him and added a Republican Constable. We now are a mixed county -- with both Republicans and Democrats holding office.

We expect to increase the seats held by Republicans in the State House and Senate, and will probably be the majority in at least one chamber after this election.

How did we do it? Not by sitting on our thumbs and whining. Not by spreading cockamamie conspiracy theories about how everything was controled by some mysterious group of bigwigs. Not by crying that we were entitled to good candidates -- with no effort on our part.

We did it by recruiting, running and backing candidates. We did it by digging deep into our pockets, by holding fish frys and barbecues, by shoeleather, going from door to door.

And you can do it, too -- if you'll make the effort.

[Barkley]

"you can do it, too -- if you'll make the effort."

Exactly Vern, exactly.

[JJFlash]

"you can do it, too -- if you'll make the effort."

Exactly Vern, exactly.

To which I reply: Bullsh#t. Been there, done that. An exercise in futility. Look at the power now wielded by the fed gov't, in direct contravention of the Constitution. The whole thing is flipped upside down: We the People are at the bottom of the heap when we should be at the top. And you can campaign and vote til the cows come home and it's not gonna change a thing, at least not for several lifetimes, assuming you can even educate and motivate the sheep to take their rightful place in the scheme of things. Hell, we're a socialist nation right now; may be the "soft" Western Europe type of socialism but it's socialism nonetheless, and it's not hard to see where it's all going.

No one wants a shooting war (I do believe, however, that when they go for the guns, it'll be on). What we've been saying is we need to stop playing THEIR game (e.g., voting for whomever the GOP machine puts up) and stand on righteous principle. So save your platitudes and admonishments. We're all intelligent, hard-working adults, capable of serious, cogent thought and arriving at our own conclusions. You sneer because of our refusal to play the game, and we sneer right back at your playing in a crooked game where you think you're influencing the outcome when you're really not. History is the proof of that.

[Vern Humphrey]

To which I reply: Bullsh#t. Been there, done that.
No, you haven't been there and you haven't done it.

Buty if you say you have -- tell the rest of us what you did. Document your many years of membership in a political party. List the positions you held, the offices you ran for, the candidates you recruited.

[Popeye]

How did we do it? Not by sitting on our thumbs and whining. Not by spreading cockamamie conspiracy theories about how everything was controled by some mysterious group of bigwigs. Not by crying that we were entitled to good candidates -- with no effort on our part.

We did it by recruiting, running and backing candidates. We did it by digging deep into our pockets, by holding fish frys and barbecues, by shoeleather, going from door to door.

There you have it!

It takes intelligent work, not carping and complaining. Definitely not quitting.

[Desertrat]

Folks,

Okay, I'm not a moderator, but someone needs to tone this down a notch and throw some water on some folks! When you start calling someone a liar you are crossing lines, and as a "moderator" you are way out of line, there is no excuse for that!

We all feel strongly here about this subject, and I believe we are all being honest and truthful regarding our experiences and our beliefs. I still respect those who disagree with me and I would hope that they feel the same towards me. We all can agree on a number of subjects on this board and perhaps we should stick to those. We are not going to agree on this one and obviously we're not going to change any minds , so we should just let it go; without name calling and acting like G.D. 3rd graders if you please.

Respect, gentlemen, respect if you please.

Thank you.

[Stevejet]

"To Dream the Impossible Dream" is the Republican anthem in Kalifornia.

Progressives, Democrats, socialists, lint, water, and bone-heads have created this mess. It is only when they feel the "pain" and realize they caused it that things have any chance of changing.

[HK4U]

No, you haven't been there and you haven't done it.

Buty if you say you have -- tell the rest of us what you did. Document your many years of membership in a political party. List the positions you held, the offices you ran for, the candidates you recruited.

Say Vern would you like to see a copy of my voter card? Should I list how many times in my life I have said the Pledge of Allegiance or sang the National Anthem. Perhaps you would like a list of all my movies just to make sure there are no liberal ones in my collection. Anything I missed. Papers please.

[JJFlash]

No, you haven't been there and you haven't done it.

Buty if you say you have -- tell the rest of us what you did. Document your many years of membership in a political party. List the positions you held, the offices you ran for, the candidates you recruited.


And you know this how, exactly? A) You dont know squat about me; B) I don't owe you an explantation about anything; and C) I guess I'm done cause I can't compete with someone who is clairvoyant, who knows all and sees all.

[Vern Humphrey]

But if you say you have -- tell the rest of us what you did. Document your many years of membership in a political party. List the positions you held, the offices you ran for, the candidates you recruited.
Say Vern would you like to see a copy of my voter card? Should I list how many times in my life I have said the Pledge of Allegiance or sang the National Anthem. Perhaps you would like a list of all my movies just to make sure there are no liberal ones in my collection. Anything I missed. Papers please.
Yeah -- you missed telling us about your many years of membership in a political party, the positions you held, the offices you ran for, and the candidates you recruited.
And you know this how, exactly? A) You dont know squat about me; B) I don't owe you an explantation about anything; and C) I guess I'm done cause I can't compete with someone who is clairvoyant, who knows all and sees all.
You've just proven my point -- you can't list any actual work you did to get good candidates.

[Dwayne]

Yeah -- you missed telling us about your many years of membership in a political party, the positions you held, the offices you ran for, and the candidates you recruited.

You've just proven my point -- you can't list any actual work you did to get good candidates.

and you have proven my point. . .all the :bs: work you "so called" done, has changed nothing. . . still spiraling down in the vortex.

you are still missing the entire point. . .brag all you want about whatever party you claim to be. . nothing has changed. same old lies from both parties, same old games being played, and the whole ten works.

Funny how both parties claim to want to stop the debt . yet both equally spend just as the other has .

[Barkley]

I happen to agree with Desertrat on this one. Let's just let it go. Things are right on the edge of getting out of control. Let's not lose members over this and we're headed that way.

[deputy]

a lot of emotions.......politics can do that....:)

just a couple of observations.......as usual, i am in a world of my own.....or is the term "Libertarian"?......:P

i have my notions of what is right and wrong.....and to those ends, i try to stay true to my convictions. on the other hand, i also understand that at times i must be a realist and must make do with what i got.

the following statement is based on three concepts that i personally hold to be true and factual......your opinions and conclusions may vary.........

1. we are a Country of over 300 million people. Two political parties can not ever hope to adequately represent that many people. to those ends, the political parties themselves compromise on principle to attract a broader base. the voters compromise on principle and vote according to the preponderance of evidence as to which party holds closer to our beliefs. . the sad truth of the matter is both parties are more alike than they are opposite.

2. the two party system is entrenched in our society. there has been attempts to form a politically viable and strong 3rd party at various times in our history. And from history, the result every time has been the eventual canabilizing of that 3rd party into one of the other two parties. The short term results is one party instantly wins due to the competition. the longer term results are a fundamental shift and change in direction of the losing party and it emerges stronger after it adopts some of the major platforms of the upstart 3rd party and draws strength from that. The end result is two remaining parties that are less similar. over time, the two parties slowly start to compromise and appear to merge in various areas again.

3. who is elected as POTUS this go-around does not matter one bit as far as economics, foreign policy, immigration, or even the 2A for that matter. As POTUS, both romney and obama are loosers. What does matter is who we elect that will make some sound decisions for nominations to SCOTUS. For me, this election is not about obama or romney......it is about SCOTUS. High judges tend to stay on the Court for decades and a shift to the left in SCOTUS could very well signal the final nail in the coffin for this Country.

i consider potential SCOTUS nominations as the driving force as to why i wil not support a 3rd party candidate at this time. I have seen what obama has nominated to the High Court. I know from past experience what obama's future nominations to the High Court will mirror. Romney is the unknown in this area on SCOTUS nominations.

I'll take a chance on the unkown qualities of romney before i dance with the devil obama.

the 3rd party is always a choice.....and do not ever let anyone tell you it is a wasted vote. Taking a stand on principle is noble and that is the only way we can truely make changes and have a definate impact. But, obama and the pelosi crowd at this time are the most dangerous individuals ever to occupy a position of power since lenin and stalin..........and i must take that into account with SCOTUS weighing heavily on my mind. I will not go 3rd party this election. That is a personal decision......that is the right decision for me.......there might not be a Republic left under obama......and that is not rhetoric.....that is a truth..

you have no idea just how hard this was to type..........

[Stevejet]

BUT.......remember......"barry" has recently declared that he can't wait on the Legislative Branch to move on his "agenda", so by his Executive Orders and the rules and "regulations" of fiat from his academic crony Administration, a 2nd term for the poseur is bound to be a "dilly"!

"barry" has come as close to usurping the parliamentary procedures of our laws and Constitution as any president that I can recall. In some instances He or His Administration have exceeded Wilson and FDR in power exercises and "barry" is much more devious than that scoundrel Nixon.

Only an "opposition congress" can rein in the likes of the above Mooks, and they will only do it because they stand to lose their "exceptional status". The REAL THREAT of politicians playing for keeps, eh?

Some day, long after we are gone, the "folks" MIGHT see the problem for what it is. Our founders did not write our Declaration of Independence, Constitution or form our government with CAREER POLITICIANS in mind!

[Vern Humphrey]

and you have proven my point. . .all the work you "so called" done, has changed nothing
Wrongo! In Vigrinia we broke the Byrd Machine, and we are busy breaking it's Arkansas counterpart.

Now, what have you accomplished?

[Popeye]

On a smaller scale, in the County of Sacramento in the State of California Concealed Carry Permits are now available to citizens, who can pass a background check, for the asking.

[Vern Humphrey]

On a smaller scale, in the County of Sacramento in the State of California Concealed Carry Permits are now available to citizens, who can pass a background check, for the asking.
Which illustrates the principle very well -- if we each work to clean up our own backyards, the whole country will be clean.

[Popeye]

On a smaller scale, in the County of Sacramento in the State of California Concealed Carry Permits are now available to citizens, who can pass a background check, for the asking.

Oh yes, this little gem took seven years to achieve. Its a good thing we didn't give up and quit.

[Vern Humphrey]

Oh yes, this little gem took seven years to achieve. Its a good thing we didn't give up and quit.
As I've frequently said, it took many years for us to get into the mess we're in, and it will take many years of hard work to get out.

And when I feel discouraged, I ask myself, "Where would I be if my mother gave up after five or six months?";)

[Dwayne]

Wrongo! In Vigrinia we broke the Byrd Machine, and we are busy breaking it's Arkansas counterpart.

Now, what have you accomplished?

No wrongo again. You have accomplished nothing . .....

http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-virginia-debt-clock.html

i still don´t care who you have in office. . .Your good old state of virgina is spending just as good with republicans as with democrats.

you are sill missing the entire point of this who conversation. .. .

[Vern Humphrey]

No wrongo again. You have accomplished nothing . .....

http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-virginia-debt-clock.html

i still don´t care who you have in office. . .Your good old state of virgina is spending just as good with republicans as with democrats.

you are sill missing the entire point of this who conversation. .. .
So you say.

But you weren't there under the old Byrd machine -- you don't know how much better things have gotten.

Now tell me this -- have you made things better with all you whining and complaining?

The Parable of Eula Mae Suggs

Right after the big ice storm, Miz Eula Mae Suggs started having problems. Friends would tell her, “I tried to call you yesterday, but your phone didn’t ring.” And she began to notice a strange moaning sound – and whenever she heard that, the telephone would ring. So she called the phone company.

The repairman came out, climbed the pole and used his test set to call her. As soon as he dialed the number, he heard that moaning sound – and then the phone rang.

It turned out that her ground wire had come lose in the ice storm. Her dog, Shiftless, was chained right there, and sometimes Shiftless’ chain would touch the loose ground wire. If a call came through at that time, Shiftless would get an 80-volt shock, which would cause him to moan and urinate. The wet ground would carry the signal, and the phone would ring.

This is the only known instance in history where pi&&ing and moaning actually changed anything.
:D

[Dwayne]

So you say.

But you weren't there under the old Byrd machine -- you don't know how much better things have gotten.

Now tell me this -- have you made things better with all you whining and complaining?


:D

Shows the facts. . . <chuckle>

Someday when you wake up, you will find both parties are farces. . . that is going to be a rude awakening for you and others.

[Vern Humphrey]

Shows the facts. . . <chuckle>

Someday when you wake up, you will find both parties are farces. . . that is going to be a rude awakening for you and others.

To give two examples, Virginia now has a balanced budge amendment and "shall-issue" concealed carry.

Now it's your turn. Show how your entitlement mentality and all your complaining and whining have made a difference.

[JJFlash]

To give two examples, Virginia now has a balanced budge amendment and "shall-issue" concealed carry.

Now it's your turn. Show how your entitlement mentality and all your complaining and whining have made a difference.

Say, Vern, I'd like YOU to please list the level of political activity and/or involvement that you deem acceptable or that would, at least, allow us to argue with you with some degree of legitimacy. Please list them numerically, if you would. That way, I can be sure, when next I am planting signs in yards in support of some local politico, that it's a "Vern Humphrey approved activity". And then I can go onto the next item on the list, just to be sure I'm working hard enough.

Btw, it's nice that VA now has "shall issue" concealed carry. There are those, of course, who would argue that any permit to carry is un-Constitutional, so it's nice that you presumably worked your azz off to get this passed. According to your model, if you just keep working your azz off, why one day, far, far into the future, this law would be rescinded in favor of the 2A RKBA, which, of course, has been on the "books" for generations. Gotta start somewhere, tho, right? Keep working, sir. Me? I'm heading for a nap. Politicians, bullsh#tters, and know-it-alls (or is that redundant?) wear me out.

[Vern Humphrey]

Say, Vern, I'd like YOU to please list the level of political activity and/or involvement that you deem acceptable or that would, at least, allow us to argue with you with some degree of legitimacy. Please list them numerically, if you would. That way, I can be sure, when next I am planting signs in yards in support of some local politico, that it's a "Vern Humphrey approved activity". And then I can go onto the next item on the list, just to be sure I'm working hard enough.

Btw, it's nice that VA now has "shall issue" concealed carry. There are those, of course, who would argue that any permit to carry is un-Constitutional, so it's nice that you presumably worked your azz off to get this passed. According to your model, if you just keep working your azz off, why one day, far, far into the future, this law would be rescinded in favor of the 2A RKBA, which, of course, has been on the "books" for generations. Gotta start somewhere, tho, right? Keep working, sir. Me? I'm heading for a nap. Politicians, bullsh#tters, and know-it-alls (or is that redundant?) wear me out.
Simple -- put half as much effort into actually working as you do into whining, pi$$ing and moaning.

[JJFlash]

Simple -- put half as much effort into actually working as you do into whining, pi$$ing and moaning.

I can't do that w/o that list, Vern, cause I'm stupid, fat and lazy, and I need specific directions. Course, I understand if you don't want to take the time...It might be a worthwhile endeavor, tho. Who knows? You might fire up an entire legion of political activists, all following your playbook. Just think how gratifying that would be!

[Dwayne]

A defeat is a defeat.

And when a politician is soundly defenated the message is, "His ideas can't win -- so we need to change our politics to be more left wing."

That's why you need to work to win. Note the two operative words, work and win. They go together.

As for this, "Voting conservative in a liberal state will not get you anywhere." I can prove you're wrong -- there was no more Democrat state than Virginia -- but while I was there working in the Republican Party, we broke the old Byrd Machine and today Virginia is more Republican than Democrat.

Arkansas was just as Democrat as Virginia. The First District had never had a Republican Congressman -- I ran and lost, but made the crack in the wall. We now have a Republican Congressman -- in fact, four out of our six members of Congress (four Representatives and two Senators) are Republicans.



:itsokay::fhug:;):coolchug:

[deputy]

back on topic.........the "tea party" represents individual action, motivation, and getting involved in the selection process. These various tea party functions have done great good in my opinion at getting people involved and motivated in the process....especially the independants. I am also of the opinion that tea party motivation has been the cause of more independents registering as republicans and voteing in the republican primaries.

And the best results have been obtained on the State level. To a degree, this motivation/actions is working as there has even been clashes between the elements of the tea party and the republican party itself.

Correct.......there is no actual "tea party".......as in a 3rd party. What the tea party does represent is local elements getting involved in the primary process at the State level......in fact, the smaller the area/district/region, the better the results.

The larger the district, the more problems the concept of the "tea party" runs into simply because there comes into play more tea party participation and more activitists who support different ideas and direction on different "tea party" candidates. This is one of the main reasons that tea party candidates have been making gains in the House of Representives and not in the Senate. A senate win means winning the entire State whereas a House win means winning a district.

There can be no endorsement by the tea party for POTUS simply because there are multiple tea party organizations/factions that will not compromise and will hold true to their selections and beliefs. This does not mean that these participants will vote 3rd party or bow out of the presidential primary process or nov election, what it does mean is that their united strengths and united regional voices will not compromise and go along with the republican compromise candidate.......and these united tea party republicans and independent voters will not give an endorsement to a compromise. therefore the individual tea party members cease being united and moving in the same step and become independents again. They will not work with the republican party and compromise......therefore their level of participation is more or less done and over with in the republican party other than to cast a vote for the lesser of two evils and being absolutely forced to compromise.

I really like the tea party concept.........independent, holding true to ideals, not willing to compromise.......and as i said, it works well in the smaller districts and regions. The fewer the people, the better the honest representation. The more people involved, then "compromise" becomes the operative word. And tea parties do not compromise which is why there has been several tea party candidates on some occasions running against each other in primaries instead of one tea party candidate going against the republican machine.

So, this is why there is no tea party endorsment of romney........
there is no actual tea "party"....it is independent motivation
the driving force of the tea party is no compromise
participants in the tea party do not trust the republican party....

but tea party members will participate as individuals and cast a vote not on principle, but to minimalize damage. Sounds silly? not really......a vote against the democrats/obama is considered a survival act therefore it is viewed as such.

Considering it as a vote for the republicans/romney?.....that is viewed as an endorsement for the republican party, its goals, and direction....which most of the tea party supporters in my area will not accept.

Therefore, most tea party participants will be voting against obama...not for romney. you can not tell them it is a vote for the republicans........to do such almost amounts to fighting words for some.

bear in mind this opinion is based on participation in my regional tea party and from what i see with our local involvment and our local opinions........we do not give a hoot what the tea party thinks in el paso or in dallas. The tea party strength is grass roots. that means we talk in coffee shops, at the gas station, and attend some rallies and get involved thru word of mouth. it might be small and inefficient in the grand scheme of things, but it is nevertheless passionate and it works. there are more people involved in the political process now in this area than ever before. There are more letters to the editor and more people tuned into talk radio than ever before.

Such minor activities may not sound like active participation from the rank and file members of the republican or democrat parties. But it is nevertheless participation. it is active, and apparently it works as seen from the results of various elections across this Country with such grass roots movement.

At the very least, the tea party movements represents faith and a measure of trust in the system that changes can be made to the republican party. That such faith and notions are present is good.......

[Dwayne]

back on topic.........the "tea party" represents individual action, motivation, and getting involved in the selection process. These various tea party functions have done great good in my opinion at getting people involved and motivated in the process....especially the independants. I am also of the opinion that tea party motivation has been the cause of more independents registering as republicans and voteing in the republican primaries.

And the best results have been obtained on the State level. To a degree, this motivation/actions is working as there has even been clashes between the elements of the tea party and the republican party itself.

Correct.......there is no actual "tea party".......as in a 3rd party. What the tea party does represent is local elements getting involved in the primary process at the State level......in fact, the smaller the area/district/region, the better the results.

The larger the district, the more problems the concept of the "tea party" runs into simply because there comes into play more tea party participation and more activitists who support different ideas and direction on different "tea party" candidates. This is one of the main reasons that tea party candidates have been making gains in the House of Representives and not in the Senate. A senate win means winning the entire State whereas a House win means winning a district.

There can be no endorsement by the tea party for POTUS simply because there are multiple tea party organizations/factions that will not compromise and will hold true to their selections and beliefs. This does not mean that these participants will vote 3rd party or bow out of the presidential primary process or nov election, what it does mean is that their united strengths and united regional voices will not compromise and go along with the republican compromise candidate.......and these united tea party republicans and independent voters will not give an endorsement to a compromise. therefore the individual tea party members cease being united and moving in the same step and become independents again. They will not work with the republican party and compromise......therefore their level of participation is more or less done and over with in the republican party other than to cast a vote for the lesser of two evils and being absolutely forced to compromise.

I really like the tea party concept.........independent, holding true to ideals, not willing to compromise.......and as i said, it works well in the smaller districts and regions. The fewer the people, the better the honest representation. The more people involved, then "compromise" becomes the operative word. And tea parties do not compromise which is why there has been several tea party candidates on some occasions running against each other in primaries instead of one tea party candidate going against the republican machine.

So, this is why there is no tea party endorsment of romney........
there is no actual tea "party"....it is independent motivation
the driving force of the tea party is no compromise
participants in the tea party do not trust the republican party....

but tea party members will participate as individuals and cast a vote not on principle, but to minimalize damage. Sounds silly? not really......a vote against the democrats/obama is considered a survival act therefore it is viewed as such.

Considering it as a vote for the republicans/romney?.....that is viewed as an endorsement for the republican party, its goals, and direction....which most of the tea party supporters in my area will not accept.

Therefore, most tea party participants will be voting against obama...not for romney. you can not tell them it is a vote for the republicans........to do such almost amounts to fighting words for some.

bear in mind this opinion is based on participation in my regional tea party and from what i see with our local involvment and our local opinions........we do not give a hoot what the tea party thinks in el paso or in dallas. The tea party strength is grass roots. that means we talk in coffee shops, at the gas station, and attend some rallies and get involved thru word of mouth. it might be small and inefficient in the grand scheme of things, but it is nevertheless passionate and it works. there are more people involved in the political process now in this area than ever before. There are more letters to the editor and more people tuned into talk radio than ever before.

Such minor activities may not sound like active participation from the rank and file members of the republican or democrat parties. But it is nevertheless participation. it is active, and apparently it works as seen from the results of various elections across this Country with such grass roots movement.

At the very least, the tea party movements represents faith and a measure of trust in the system that changes can be made to the republican party. That such faith and notions are present is good.......

Good post. . . .

while it is true that there is no "official" tea party, there are many who represent "it". Palin is one.

My main beef (which is what this whole topic as about), is the compromising of those who claim to represent the tea party folk will compromise their way and "endorse" Mitt.

For example. . .if Palin "endorses" Mitt just to make sure her followers and supporters (and would be wanna-bes) vote for Mitt, she will have compromised all of her ideals, and lowered herself to being nothing but another democrat.

Same goes with conservatives like Rush and Mark Levin, and everyone else out there.

If a person compromises their position to endorse someone that doesn't even come close to their ideals, they have placed themselves into a "no better than a democrat" position.

When that person *is* elected, SHTF, and the new change isn't that much better than Obama, they are gonig to have to answer to the saying:"YOU endorsed him/her, YOU said this was the good change, and now we have to live with it. So, why should they vote anything other than democrat?

Another example (lets go in the past, back to 1980)

Reagan.

Reagan did stop inflation from double digits, did help employment, and did a lot of good stuff. But he was also one of the biggest spenders there was in that time era. Not only that, he made citizenship out of illegals also.

He was not perfect, but compromising as such hurt him in a big way with the democrats.

So, IMO he was a good president for that era, but it cost us dearly also with debt, illegals, war on drugs, and other things.

[deputy]

My main beef (which is what this whole topic as about), is the compromising of those who claim to represent the tea party folk will compromise their way and "endorse" Mitt.

For example. . .if Palin "endorses" Mitt just to make sure her followers and supporters (and would be wanna-bes) vote for Mitt, she will have compromised all of her ideals, and lowered herself to being nothing but another democrat.

Same goes with conservatives like Rush and Mark Levin, and everyone else out there.




true.......if we are strictly dealing with the republican party or mindless drones who worship at the alter of celebrity endorsments.

but there is no one voice to represent the tea party on the national level. There is no tea party on the national level........there will never be a tea party candidate on the national level.


the tea party is not nor has it ever been about defeating the democrats. the tea party is about changing the republican party and obtaining representation.

this is quite apparent as the republican party is finding out it is hard to work with those House representives who are actually representing their districts and not the republican party.

[Dwayne]

true.......if we are strictly dealing with the republican party or mindless drones who worship at the alter of celebrity endorsments.

but there is no one voice to represent the tea party on the national level. There is no tea party on the national level........there will never be a tea party candidate on the national level.


the tea party is not nor has it ever been about defeating the democrats. the tea party is about changing the republican party and obtaining representation.

this is quite apparent as the republican party is finding out it is hard to work with those House representives who are actually representing their districts and not the republican party.

Your highlighted part is IMO extremely important. But, at the same time, IMO, the demise of the Tea Party.

IMO it doesn't take a "tea party" to keep a democrat from being elected.

I *feel* (this is just a feeling with no factual data or anything else to support it at all) that the whole purpose of the Tea Party was to form a third party to stop the entire downward spiral of our country caused by *both* parties.

To support a candidate that will uphold conservative values, not cave into the democrats, stop the spending, stop the Obama care, get some kind of balanced budget going, or SOMETHING like this in nature.


unfortunately, every tea party supported manure that was elected has fallen right into the hands of the democrats, and have not changed anything at all. They have caved to the democrats. (Or maybe that was their intention, just get elected for the job to live on easy street, I don't know). It *seems* as soon as they got into office, they just melted into the group. . .EXACTLY like the pigs on Animal Farm in the end.


I guess IMO the Tea Party people should be about putting in people who will stand their ground, not compromise, stay conservative, stop this spending, keep to their values and turn this country around. If this is not the goal of the Tea Party, but instead just to defeat the democrats, then we are no better off with them, as without them in my books.

[Vern Humphrey]

I can't do that w/o that list, Vern, cause I'm stupid, fat and lazy, and I need specific directions. Course, I understand if you don't want to take the time...It might be a worthwhile endeavor, tho. Who knows? You might fire up an entire legion of political activists, all following your playbook. Just think how gratifying that would be!
Well, far be it from me to disputer your own assessment of yourself.;)

[deputy]

dwayne..........

i think the inspiration for the tea party and the methods to the madness was taken from the page of Ron Paul........

as with Paul, there was no chance of a 3rd party libertarian holding office without the resources available under the two parties.

Paul ran on the republican ticket as a republican in name only......a RINO....so to speak. And Paul was successful and repeated that success. He is a member of the republican party and works within the party...not for it. He has turned into as much of a thorne for the republicans as the democrats. His only problem is that he has been a force of one.

the tea party from ground up was not designed to form a 3rd party, it was first and formost designed to be an assault weapon against the republicans and the business as usual attitude of using moderate and liberal rinos.

Paul is a success story. his problem is he was alone.....
The tea party has what? 60 conserative members in the House? not bad. Lets see if we can run it up to 80 head............

[Barkley]

Btw, it's nice that VA now has "shall issue" concealed carry. There are those, of course, who would argue that any permit to carry is un-Constitutional, so it's nice that you presumably worked your azz off to get this passed. According to your model, if you just keep working your azz off, why one day, far, far into the future, this law would be rescinded in favor of the 2A RKBA, which, of course, has been on the "books" for generations. Gotta start somewhere, tho, right? Keep working, sir. Me? I'm heading for a nap. Politicians, bullsh#tters, and know-it-alls (or is that redundant?) wear me out.

When something is taken away over years you don't get it back in one shot without something drastic, war comes to mind. We now have shall issue permits. We just got rid of that darn one gun a month rule from 20 years ago. We got rid of the can't carry any place they serve alcohol last year. It took years to get across the idea we didn't mean bars but any decent restaurant. It takes time and slow pushing but you can do it. Expecting instant results is ridiculous and frankly juvenile.

This presedential election is important. Winning the senate and keeping the house is even more important. The senate is where judges are confirmed. The house starts budgets.

[Vern Humphrey]

Btw, it's nice that VA now has "shall issue" concealed carry. There are those, of course, who would argue that any permit to carry is un-Constitutional, so it's nice that you presumably worked your azz off to get this passed. According to your model, if you just keep working your azz off, why one day, far, far into the future, this law would be rescinded in favor of the 2A RKBA, which, of course, has been on the "books" for generations. Gotta start somewhere, tho, right? Keep working, sir. Me? I'm heading for a nap. Politicians, bullsh#tters, and know-it-alls (or is that redundant?) wear me out.

When something is taken away over years you don't get it back in one shot without something drastic, war comes to mind. We now have shall issue permits. We just got rid of that darn one gun a month rule from 20 years ago. We got rid of the can't carry any place they serve alcohol last year. It took years to get across the idea we didn't mean bars but any decent restaurant. It takes time and slow pushing but you can do it. Expecting instant results is ridiculous and frankly juvenile.

This presedential election is important. Winning the senate and keeping the house is even more important. The senate is where judges are confirmed. The house starts budgets.
Once again, what has all that whining accomplished?;)

[Dwayne]

Quote:
My main beef (which is what this whole topic as about), is the compromising of those who claim to represent the tea party folk will compromise their way and "endorse" Mitt.

For example. . .if Palin "endorses" Mitt just to make sure her followers and supporters (and would be wanna-bes) vote for Mitt, she will have compromised all of her ideals, and lowered herself to being nothing but another democrat.

Same goes with conservatives like Rush and Mark Levin, and everyone else out there.


true.......if we are strictly dealing with the republican party or mindless drones who worship at the alter of celebrity endorsments.

Hello Debuty. . ..

I re-read this, and thought I would touch on this a little more. I am not sure if you really believe what you wrote, but in some ways, I would not be surprised if the vast majority of the people *are* mindless drones just waiting for their celebrity to endorse.

Granted, I am not talking about this forum. . .Around here we have some excellent thinking people all around. Everyone does a great job of researching *both* parties. But. . .as they say "Like minded" people hang around each other. Over half the population kissed Obama's fanny every which way they can. . . ;)

Thus, your comment has some very severe repercussions when it comes to reality and the way people vote.

There has got to be something said, when hundreds of millions of dollars are spent by the politicians every year "Reaching the Masses" of stupid robots that hang on their very word while watching TV and Listening to Radio.

There has to be something when people get "Happy" and "Giggly" when they receive a "tweet" or "Text" from "THE PRESIDENT" as to make them feel important.

In other words, a lot of "emotion" seems to run amok with those who can't think for themselves, and wait for this "Word from God" to vote for them.

Me? I am the opposite. I do not have cable TV, nor do I receive regular TV. I refuse to kiss anyones fanny just for a vote. I look at background, what they represent, and what their record is. It is all written down.

Back to the "drones". . .

I am afraid to say, both parties (I think) have a very huge number of drones. Probably more than what we really want to admit. . . (that is a scary thought).

The situation is: How we deal with these drones.

Drones know a few things:

1. They are dummies that want anything the government can give them.

2. They will not vote away their gravy if the gravy is presented to them as candy.

3. They will pick whichever candidate will deem the best candy for them. They know they must sacrifice some candy to get more candy. How they determine this. . .who knows. . .:D

[deputy]

dewayne........

people like the shock and awe factor of a single leader and a single voice out of lazyness, not willing to think on their own, and the popularity factor.

the tea party folks are not lazy, they are thinking and looking at the candidates. the tea party's playbook is not on the national stage but within the States. To get the tea party to become active on the national stage would be like using a screw driver to hammer nails.....wrong tool for the wrong job.

Again, the tea party with its nature is:
not designed to win elections against the democrats...
the tea party was not designed for national elections.....
it is designed to win primaries against local/district/State republicans. The true mission/enemy of the tea party is the current RNC......not the democrats.

that is the first and formost fight of the tea party "idealism"....to change the republican party.

this in my opinion is again why the tea party for the most part has been silent on any endorsment for potus...they ain't got no dog in that fight...that would require a united and actual structured tea party organization.......which does not exist.

palin can endorse whomever she wishes.......and that endorsement may have an effect on individual tea party members......just like it might effect independants or republicans. But i do not believe a palin endorsment will be a rubber stamp for every tea party member and organization to jump on the band wagon with a rally cry of "follow palin"......the tea party is too independent and too rogue for such.
palin.....while indeed popular with tea party membership....holds really no sway over the tea party loose knit organizations on national elections. She ain't no union boss who can order the minions to do her bidding......the tea party is too independent.....you can not herd or harness the tea party nationally.....the voices are fractured.

by the way.....wrong or right......the tea party.....at least in my area....will not be really involved in the potus election......everyone knows they are going to be voting against obama.......and the prevalient attitude is they sure are not going to lift one finger and do any work for romney........they will not go door to door, they will not hold rallies for romney, they will do nothing more than vote........they would rather concentrate on other elections that have an immediate impact on their lives.

[deputy]

by the way dwayne........excellent debate and excellent thoughts.:up:

perhaps i am too much of an idealist when it comes to the tea party.

[Dwayne]

by the way dwayne........excellent debate and excellent thoughts.:up:

perhaps i am too much of an idealist when it comes to the tea party.

If you are too much of an Idealist, I am definitely too much of a realist. . .:D:D:D