[Tony from Finland]

A lot of you seem to like carrying your semi-automatics in an IWB holster. From my very limited experience I can't understand how you manage to do it... I have one very good holster for my P99 that is incredibly comfortable as an OWB holster, but when I put the belt loop for IWB carry on and try it in that mode, the holster becomes quite uncomfortable. I do not know if I could carry IWB all day long unless I really had no choice. Until now I've just thought that perhaps IWB carry just wouldn't suit me, but reading/seeing how a lot of you carry IWB I've started to wonder if I'm somehow doing it wrong? Or do you all just "tough it out" in order to carry your favorite Big Gun? :D

[jim]

It really depends on the holster. Finding a comfortable IWB holster is a tough as finding the perfect pistol. I can't guess how many IWBs I've bought over the years only to end up giving them away, and most have been from very well known companies. I've finally settles on the Mr. Softy from High Noon Holsters. I've also used his Down Under and Hide Away. The Down Under was fine, didn't like the Hideaway as much.

See www.highnoonholsters.com (http://www.highnoonholsters.com)

[stu]

Tony- In order for an IWB holster to be comfortable, you need a pair of pants that's 2" larger in the waist then you normally wear.

[Jim V]

Tony, finding a good IWB holster takes some time. I've tried a bunch of them before getting the two I use now. I had no problem carrying my pistol just stuffed in the belt but IWB holsters made me think I was trying to carry a telephone book instead of my pistol. Go up two inches in waist size for your trousers will help - more room for you and the holster with pistol. Get a good belt too. A flimsy belt will make the IWB holster do strange things that it would not do with a good belt.

[VictorLouis]

A LOT of designs add way too much bulk, IMHO. To me, the ideal rig is thin and floppy, like most of the worthless 'clip-ons' you find. the difference being that the mouth is re-inforced JUST enough to allow for one-handed insertion. A classic Summer Special rig comes to mind. Also, you must wear the rig behind the hip bone, almost over the kidney, to achieve the best comfort.

[jimfox]

IWB takes some adjustment - and (unless you're lucky) a fair amount of sometimes-expensive experimentation. Depending on the person a holster make that is comfortable with one style gun won't necessarily be comfortable with another.

Also a holster may be comfortable carried in a certain spot, but that may not be the optimum spot for best concealment. Sometimes it depends on the style of pants you wear, e.g., how high on the waist are they cut to wear? I do not find the same holster equally functional with jeans as opposed to slacks or docker style.

I'm fairly skinny, and definitely don't have "abs of steel" (unless I happen to be carrying a gun in the appendix position). For optimum concealment I need a holster with slightly more cant than the standard FBI (which is about 15 degrees). For IWB I wear the gun just barely behind the strong side hip. This works well with higher cut pants, not quite so well with jeans unless the holster is made with the extra cant. With jeans I need the extra cant and wear the gun slightly further back from the hip for comfort. These accommodations are comfortable (at least with the holsters I have). For vertical carry I must wear even with the hip bone and higher cut pants with a good OWB holster works best. IWB carry on the hip bone is very uncomfortable for me.

When I get a few nickels ahead I'm going to experiment with an SOB holster (worn just behind the strong side hip) to see if this will give me good concealment for a full size 1911 under summer shirts and be comfortable with jeans. Right now for summer I really need to stick with the guns that have shorter handles.

Considering where I live (E. Texas sweat zone) I try not to subject an IWB holster to the soaking it'll get if I'm active outside. For my usual summer accessory (Kimber Ultra CDP or Compact CDP) I alternate between an IWB and an OWB. But even with an OWB holster I often wipe condensation off the gun through the day if I'm doing any kind of heavy physical activity.

However, back to your question of comfort. As previously said - a good stiff belt is required. This good stiff belt will also require a break-in period. Leather belts will eventually contour to you. Synthetic material belts contour initially a shade better, but basically you get used to them for that last little bit of comfort.

Pants cut for a higher waist work better for us scrawny folk. I can't comment on what works better for the folks who are Silhouette Enhanced. The drawback is that we have to cinch them in tight. Unless you are blessed with a reasonable to good depression hedge, I don't know that I'd recommend a full two extra inches in waist size - unless you're into medium to large revolvers or really chubby autos. My waist, hips and rear aren't all that different and if I got my pants a good two inches larger I could shuck the whole mess down to my ankles - 1911 and all - without a really (uncomfortably) tightly cinched belt or (more comfortably) suspenders.

Tightly cinching the belt is more comfortable if the pants aren't much larger in the waist. Even with the gun/holster.

I don't know if all this meandering will be helpful. I hope so - at least to some extent. If you luck into a holster for your favorite, that is both comfortable and concealable on the first try - then you should consider buying lottery tickets for a living. (At least in my opinion/experience). I do carry comfortably, with concealment, and with a reasonable caliber gun - but it was not a low budget experience. It would have helped if I'd had a cadre of friends with different holster/belt/gun combinations that I could have tried. But I didn't.

Good luck.

[Bubba]

Lots of good stuff here. I will point you over to the thread Alan started on "Is your CCW gettind smaller, larger or the same" in the Handguns forum. I just posted a bunch of stuff on why I love my Milt Sparks Versa MAX II. Stu is also correct. I buy all my pants 2 inches larger than I need now. I have carried IWB concealed for 16-18 hours straight without an issue. Most of the time I don't even know the rig is there.

[Dennis Foote]

Hi Tony,
Here in Arizona, IWB is the only practicle method of carry. You see, it is very hot, and dry here. Nowadays, the temprature is hovering right around 108 degrees F. I do not, right off the top of my head know what that comes out to in centigrade, but it is HOT!!! I use a Kydex IWB holster with a 15 degree cant, placed just ahead of my hip bone. The covering garmet is a t-shirt. As stated above, I must wear bigger pants, and shirts. I usually buy XXX large t-shirts, and bigger pants. I carry my P99 this way. So far, it is very comfortable. :)

[Tony from Finland]

Pfft. Stupid machine. I'm sure I clicked "Preview" and not "Add". Couldn't have been my mistake. Yeppers, must be the computer is acting up again... :rolleyes:

[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Tony from Finland ]

[Tony from Finland]

AGGAAGGAAAHHH! This stupid machine erased my post. :mad: (Posted on another thread and tried to post this too soon afterwards. I hate when that happens!)

Anyway, I was going to say that perhaps it might be a good idea to move this to Accessories, as my next question is going to be "So, what IWB holsters do you like?". (And yes, I am one of those "Silhouette Enhanced" (love that term! :D :p ) persons...)

Oh and Dennis, I'm imagining something like a cross-draw holster worn on the strong side, next to your belt buckle. Am I right? If such a miracle has happened ( :p), then doesn't the gun poke you every time you sit down?

Also, I haven't seen many cross-draw IWB holsters on the web pages I've visited. Any idea why? (Okay, so I haven't seen many cross-draw holsters, period. Don't you gun carriers drive cars in your country? Or do you all have custom made car seats with slots cut into them where your gun fits into? :D )

[cruiserman]

I thought the same and after seeing my CCW instructor carrying a Glock in a kydex IWB, I was sure I'd never go IWB. Sure enough, I went kydex IWB with my Beretta and HK. You need to get larger pants to make it work well, but I like it, especially with larger guns. I use a SmartCarry or OWB belt-slide with my P11.

[jim]

Tony

I have three of the High Noon Mr. Softies and just plain love them. They are inexpensive and Michael stands behind his products 100%.

[Masshole]

I think alot of holster makers don't make a cross draw model because they can be unsafe for those not trained to carry in that location.It's a good way to carry in the car though.I had a p-99 and found my Milt sparks summer special worked excellent as a behind the hip iwb holster. www.brownells.com (http://www.brownells.com) sells them without waiting.

[jimfox]

Been meaning to respond to your question about which IWB holsters I use - Time to get around to it I guess.

I use 3 IWB holsters. (Actually more than three, but some are duplicates from the same maker for different 1911 patterns or revolvers.)

The Bianchi Pistol pocket has the most mileage. It has enough mileage, sweat and wear until it is now just a smooth holster and you have to look close to see that there was any original "boning". Still sees some use. It is an old model and doesn't have the modern "adjustable" angle. As such - and being skinny - I don't consider it a really good holster for concealed carry. The grip has too much of a tendency to print. Heavier covering garment makes it OK, but not great.

I have a more modern holster from Mark Waldron (actually more than one IWB and OWB - I think he does good work). It (they?) is (are?) the Sidewinder model. This one has a single belt loop located back from the side of the gun. Makes a thinner print and (a plus in my opinion) allows the gun/holster to adjust slightly to changes in position. Some folks think this is a drawback. I don't. I like this holster; although, being skinny, I'd like a shade more cant. I'd asked Mark to increase the cant about 3-5 degrees or so, but he declined. Still the holster works OK to very well. For a person with a more silhouette enhanced (glad you like the phrase) build they would be just about perfect (in my opinion).

The other IWB holster I use is a Beretta soft leather holster (for the Model 84) that has a thin leather loop that can be clipped to either side of the holster. Since the fastener is independent of the belt loop the gun assumes whatever angle your belt tension, build and position dictate. I set it up for left hand, and then wear it right behind the right hip - which puts the grip forward. Works pretty well and is comfortable in most vehicles. Re-holstering sucks. Mostly I just stick it butt forward behind my strong side hipbone. Granted, a preacher came by the other night when I was working on my father’s plumbing. Answered the door. His left eyebrow went back slightly over his right ear – and I realized my shirttail had hung on the gun handle. How-some-ever, he didn’t say anything. (Nice thing about the South – folks are generally polite.)

Cross draw holsters are great (in my opinion) for heavier handguns where concealment is not a critical requirement. I have a couple of Bianchi Cyclone (Model 111) holsters for both autos and revolvers. Really great field holsters. I also have some of Bianchi's cross draws that use a spring steel clip in the holster to retain the gun. Again, for autos, a great field holster. Not something I'd recommend for concealed carry – only if a) you have good cover garments and b) are female.

Another favorite is the Milt Sparks Mirage. A between the belt and waistband holster. I use this with short-barreled autos (Kimber Ultra and Colt Officers) and wear it so that it carries the gun in the appendix position. Very concealable, very comfortable with a heavy tee shirt. Short barrel only in this position, else it pokes portions of the anatomy that are more comfortably left un-poked.

Cross draws (again, in my opinion) are great for field use and for driving or desk duty. I don't do desk duty any more and when I drive I remove the gun from it's regular position and do something else with it - then re-holster when I debark. There are a number of offerings out there that I'd like to try - but ain't got up the gumption to fork over the bucks for the satisfaction of pure curiosity. Others may chime in on that topic.

Hope this rambling helps.

[First Freedom]

Tony, I completely agree. I don't see how people use any IWB - I find them all very uncomfortable. Even my paddle OWB holster, which is quite comfortable while walking, is a little uncomfy while driving/sitting. An IWB completely changes your waist size of your pants and disrupts how the pants look & feel on your waist. I like loop or paddle OWBs myself. An IWB must be covered anyway in order to be concealed, so why not be comfortable too? The only exception is the "covered IWB" like the Blade Tech ultimate concealment holster (UCH), in which the shirt is tucked in outside the holster, but inside the pant, for complete concealment with no outer garment - that makes an IWB worth the lack of comfort for certain situations, in my view.

[Bubba]

Well Danny... for the record... Today... I wore the new BBQ gun, a full sized Government model 1911 in my Milt Sparks VersaMAX II all day long. It was concealed inside my Wranglers with a Columbia Sportswear PFG shirt tucked into the Wranglers. (In much the same fashion as the Bladtech you mention) Been about 12 hours now. Still not uncomfortable. And NO ONE knew it was there. Everyone SUSPECTED I had a gun today. But no one knew for sure. Well... Stefan knew... but he also knows the rig and how to look for the very minor details to spot it. None of the other folks had any idea where my gun might be. Most thought it was in my backpack or locked in my desk.

Did I mention that it was so comfortable I really never knew I had it on? In a FULL SIZED pistol! The smaller pistols just disappear; from the public and from my mind.

It's all in the right holster. Tony Kanalli and Co. get's 90% of my holster business anymore. Milt Sparks is the tops in my book.

[Tony from Finland]

I experimented with Gunslingers rig again. Still seems the only way to really conceal a full-sized pistol in it is to carry it like in a vertical shoulder rig. Then it is very concealable - but unfortunately not too fast. If wearing the pistol at waist level the end of the grip always pokes outwards too much. But otherwise it isn't as uncomfortable as I thought it might be. A nice IWB holster that would allow me to tuck in my shirt and wear the holster so I can reach inside my shirt and grab the pistol might work. Just as long as the holster "twists" the gun so the grip doesn't poke outwards from my roundish waist like a tangent of a circle... :p Perhaps when I get the money I should look at that Blade-Tech UCH? Don't know for sure if it's available for full-sized pistols though. (The description does not mention it but it is in the list of firearms in the ordering page.)

And thus the search of the perfect holster continues. :p

[Tony from Finland]

Read today at TFL that some fellow carried his pistol in the middle of back-position with a left-handed IWB holster (he being right-handed). I gave it a try while sitting here at my 'puter (mexican carry, since I don't have a holster for this mode) and it does feel pretty comfortable even with my 1911... (Sitting down, standing up, works all the time. :) ) But wouldn't slipping/falling down present a significant risk? I've heard my boss complain that a few guys go on sick leave every year after falling down while wearing some equipment on their belt at the MOB position.

Opinions or thoughts on the matter?

[KyKen]

MOB is hard on you if you are in and out of the car alot. Also, it increases the draw time when you need to get the weapon out in a hurry. It makes it difficult in addition to reach and clear your coat/jacket then draw the weapon and have to clear the front of your coat/jacket again when you draw a bead. MIB is relatively easy for an attacker from the rear to draw your gun and use it on you before you know what hit you.

Shoulder holsters and cross-draw holsters also present a similar problem of producing the gun in the best position for a would be attacker (right handed) to reach in from the front and pull your own weapon on you. Perfect handshake for a righty attacker.

Strong side hip holster IWB or OWB on your strong side is probably the best all around way to carry to both maximize access for you as well as control of the weapon from a would be attacker. With a little practice, you can draw the weapon very quickly. If the attacker grabs your gun, you put your strong hand on the gun and turn your strong side away from the attacker be it front or rear. You have to decide what is the most comfortable and then pick your fashion to maximize camoflage.

Either way, you retain your side arm.

[ 09-24-2001: Message edited by: KyKen ]

[Para-Man]

I carry a Full Size Para all day in my Milt Sparks Summer special.I can tell it is there but it is not uncomfortable.I buy my pants 2 sizes bigger than normal and the biggest thing to remember is to have a quality gun belt.

[Dennis Foote]

Tony,
I don't have any problem with IWB and driving. If I need to get to my gun, I just pop the seatbelt loose, and draw with my strong side hand. No, it doesn't dig into my side!!!!