[alzeller]

I saw some post here a few weeks ago on HP's. I don't want to shell out 600 for an original. I've seen the names FN, FM, KBI, Arcus, etc. Which one is the most 'accurate' copy (with good shooting results)which mfg's finish lasts the best.

[jim]

Okay

All Browning HPs were made by FN. The only pistol that Browning ever made, TTBOMK, was the BDM. So FN is the original HiPower.

The FM HiPowers are identical to the FNs although sometimes not quite as fully machined. The are not a clone since they are made under license in Argentina. All parts interchange and they are of equal quality.

KBI is an importer and is ONE of the folks that import the FEG HiPower clone, the PJK. The only difference between the PJK and other HiPowers is that it is based on the Mark II instead of the Mark III. Fit and finishe on the PJK is actually higher than on the BHP.

The ARCUS is functionall a clone of the HP but does not look at all like it. The ARCUS is far more angular in shape. Magazines, grips, internals and barrels will interchange with the HPs but the frame and slide will not.

I own all of them and they are equally reliable and accurate. It would be hard for you to go wrong with any of them. Here's a family portrait.

http://www.fototime.com/A17833CBC964F2A/standard.jpg

The ARCUS 94 is at the top. Going clockwise there is the FM HiPower from Argentina, the Browning BDM, at the bottom is the Browning HiPower Standard (which is actually the top of their line. Go Figure), and finally the FEG PJK which KBI imported. I hope this helps.

[Rabbi]

Hi Al,

In addition to a FN Hi-Power, I have one of the FEG clones from Hungary which is imported by KBI. It is a faithful copy with all parts that I have tried, 100% interchangeable. It is accurate, has GREAT fixed, three dot sights and a beautiful deep blue finish. If the steel underneath was more carefully polished, it would rival the bluing found on older Smiths and Colts. If somehow I were to lose all my pistols of "better" pedigree and the FEG was all I had left, I would not feel underarmed by a mile. This is the only HP clone with which I am familiar.

Regards,

Doc

[USP45usp]

As a new proud owner of the FM series... I can be biased and say that this is the best one. But, to be honest, this is the first Hi-Power that I've ever had.

I loved the fit, the feel, and the style. I looked at the original Hi-Powers (or the ones with the Browning name) and the difference between $700 and $300 was a big one.

The FM WILL take any of the Browning standard mags (13round) and will also take aftermarket standard mags. The FM mag was made to hold 14rounds so the last round will "rattle" due to the mags have been modified to comply with the unConstitutional law of only 10rds. (I just got a great idea... hmmmmm, it may work) Sorry, side thought there.

I'm happy with mine. DocWilly is happy with his, and I trust Jim all the way. As Jim told me before, when I was worried about what I'd just gotten, "You can't go wrong either way".

USP45usp

[Gusgus]

I've had the HP itch for some time now. I picked up an Argus 94 a few months back for $219 NIB, and thought I had the itch scratched. After shooting it, I now want more. I'll eventually be picking up a FEG PJK ($219 - $250 on line), and if I stumble across a FM at a fair price, I'd grab it in a heart beat.

As Jim and USP have said, the FM is probably the best of the clones, but you really can't go wrong with any of them.

[Hal]

the difference between $700 and $300 was a big one.
Maybe not so huge if you look at it in the right perspective. Something like a geuine High Power is a life time investment. Spread that $400 over 20 or 40 years and it becomes insignificant.
Course I have the advantage of hindsight, and a few "genuines" that I passed on years ago to draw on here. Not to say that clones and/or affordables are lesser guns by any means. I own and have owned a number of things that were like that over the years. Most of the time they've worked extremely well, and the attractive price has made them even mo betta. What I'm merely tryin tp point out is that a dollar figure isn't really (within reason) the best guideline to use.

[Bubba]

Thank's Hal. You said some things that were in my mind as well. There is certainly some VERY good value in the clones. And I would never knock them. As Jim said, in some cases, the fit and finish is better than the Portuguese Hi-Power. (I would have to do some serious comparison to a Belgian Hi-Power to see if that thought still holds water.)

If you look at it like cars for a sec, any number of them will get you where you are going. And we have certainly seen cars that look an awful lot alike. Especially when you get to things like the GM and Dalmer lines. Essentially the same cars with different brands. Does that mean the Escalade is not worth more than a Suburban? Matter of choice, what you want and what you are willing to pay for.

I very well may pick up one of the clones. But I also have an El Capitan and a Portuguese .40. Love them both. And... I know some day... the bug will finally get the better of me and the .40 will go off for a full "hot rod" treatment. That is not something I would do with a clone. So the differnce in price for a real Hi-Power vs a clone is worth it to me because of what I plan in the future.

Again, I am not "poo-poo'ing" the clones. But just saying be careful when you insinuate the original is not worth $ XXX over a clone because it doesn't shoot any better. A Rolex doesn't keep any better time than a Lumnox. But there is a lot more value there... to some people.

Jim, thanks for the picture and sharing your experience with all the different types. Those are some very pretty pistols. I REALLY need to upgrade the grips on mine. Your's are beautiful.

[jim]

Terry.

The BHP has Spegel presentation grade Rosewoods, the FEG is same but normal grade. The FM is sporting Hogue Kingwood. The Arcus has the original grips off the FM.


added:

I'll try to get some closeups of them for you guys today. Ain't digital cameras great????
:)

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: jim ]

[Bubba]

Spegel is certainly the name when it comes to Hi-Power grips. I am thinking the El Capitan would really look nice with a set of the presentation grade. It's such a unique pistol anyway.

I'll wait on the .40 only because I really don't know which type of hot rod I may build. If I go Tactical, then I would want MD Labs GunGrips on it. But if I go for a more traditional finish, the the Spegels become manditory. :) And I am pretty sure I am going to go for some type of beavertail when I do the upgrade. So I need to be sure the grips I choose will fit that mod as well. I have always loved the idea of a Hi-Power in .40 S&W and .357SIG in a deep blue finish with those high grain contrast grips.

[alzeller]

Some guy has a Browning HP in 'execellent' condition on gunbroker now. It looks awesome for a "no reserve" and its at $150.00 now.

Auction Number 3570447

I bid on it. What the hell, might as well.

[WhistlePig]

alzeller -- Nice looking HiPower. Good luck!

[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: WhistlePig ]

[Richard]

alzeller, please accept this as an answer and not a slam. If you are going to play with the big boys go with the original. I would beg, borrow, save, or steal the money for a Browning or FN. Why? I own several Browning/FN pistols and several clones. The clones just plain aren't as good as the real thing. Don't rush, take a wait and see approach, and a Browning/FN will come your way at the right price. Regards, Richard

[Frenchy]

Hi Richard;

In which way is the original better than, let's say, the FEG HiPower clone.

[Rabbi]

Frenchy,

I hope you don't mind me chiming in before Richard answers. In my experience with owning a 2000 FEG and a 1961 FN Herstal HP, the original has no machining marks anywhere, is harder steel, disassembles much easier and is about 3 oz lighter. My FEG is a fine pistol in its own right but is not a Browning/FN. Oh, and by the way, the FEG shows about .030" of daylight betwwen slide and frame when held up to a light source. The FN has no such gap, having a better slide to frame fit.

Regards,

Doc

[jim]

Originally posted by DocWilly:
<STRONG>Frenchy,

I hope you don't mind me chiming in before Richard answers. In my experience with owning a 2000 FEG and a 1961 FN Herstal HP, the original has no machining marks anywhere, is harder steel, disassembles much easier and is about 3 oz lighter. My FEG is a fine pistol in its own right but is not a Browning/FN. Oh, and by the way, the FEG shows about .030" of daylight betwwen slide and frame when held up to a light source. The FN has no such gap, having a better slide to frame fit.

Regards,

Doc</STRONG>

Doc

A second opinion. My FEG PJK has better fit and finish than any of my HPs except one. The ARCUS is everybit as well finished as my BDM (closest comparison I have) and my FM shows a few machine marks but so do many of the mat finished FNs. I have found no difference in accuracy, mags or grips and other components fit just fine. For example, my FEG is sporting C&S ambi safety and Hogue Kingwood grips. The biggest difference I've found is that the FEG PJK is based on the earlier Mark II, wartime design. Those did have loser tolerances in frame to slide fit than the Mark IIIs.

[ 04-07-2002: Message edited by: jim ]