[Frenchy]

Well, it never fails! About the time I start saving for that K-38, my C&R license reared it's ugly head.
I was at my favorite gun shop today just to see what he had, and lo and behold, there were 2 absolutely, flat perfect, mint FR-8 carbines on the rack. After a little drooling and dickering, I had him stick one back on lay-a-way.
I really do need to burn this damned license! :D
http://web.jet.es/apraiz/spsteel_cetmeton_1.jpg

[ 07-03-2001: Message edited by: Frenchy ]

[jim]

Man, I know how you feel. I just got struck by the same thing. I was saving up to get another 1911 when I found an unfired Winchester '94 for under $200.00. Just couldn't resist. 'Course it won't stay unfired very long.

[stu]

We don't have the C&R thing in CO. But that hasn't stopped me from working at a gun shop and not taking home a pay check in almost 3 years. :eek: Pay day comes a long, and I sign the check back over to the shop owner. :D

[Frenchy]

I hear that Stu!! The problem with the C&R is that it's like MasterCard....it's good EVERYWHERE!
When you can buy wholesale from
firearm's distributor's, and discounts from places like Brownells, you have to really watch your money.
Over the year's, I've had to come up with some ingenious ways to purchase with out incurring the wrath of my 'BETTER HALF"! ;)

[Gunslinger]

Hmmmmmm.....after reading this I may want to rethink the idea of getting a C&R license. LOL

[jim]

Bill

C&R should be listed right up there with the other Controlled Substances. It truely leads to a life of constant hunger for that next fix.

I'm afraid it got a fix last night. More on that later.

[sensop]

Stu,

I am confused about your remark, "We don't have the C&R thing in CO. " It is a Federal Firearms License. What do you mean?

[Frenchy]

Originally posted by sensop:
<STRONG>Stu,

I am confused about your remark, "We don't have the C&R thing in CO. " It is a Federal Firearms License. What do you mean?</STRONG>
I was wondering the same thing!!

[sensop]

I think we're going to have to flog some sense into him at Gunslinger's place in August. :D

You know, I have to get one of those C&Rs. I am getting sick of the deals going by! No excuse.

[ 07-04-2001: Message edited by: sensop ]

[stu]

The state of CO doesn't recognize C&R the way other states do. Here if its a gun then it's a gun. The only way a firearm isn't a gun is if it's black powder.

[Frenchy]

Ahhhhhh........the New Jersey syndrome!! I understand now. My condolence Stu. :(

[sensop]

I had no idea that a state could do that. Come to think of it, 'must be a selected application of the 10th Amendment ... ? Eh?

[Frenchy]

Just remember Sensop...."IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN" :rolleyes:

[jim]

More on the variablilty of C&R in the various Soviets. California doesn't recognize any rifles as C&R unless they are 50 years old. Doesn't matter if they're on the list or not. And they don't recognize ANY handguns as C&R.

A C&R holder can sell to users outside California, but cannot bring handguns or non-C&R rifles in. In addition, they have to go through a FFL, run the background check, register the weapon and have a one per month limit. Here is a summary of Californias rediculous law.

********************************************

Special regulations for California C&R FFL's

Summary of California C&R (Class 03) FFL related law, updated February 16th, 2001.

Using your C&R Class 03 FFL you can buy from anyone and receive from out of state by common carrier, in conformity with federal law, any firearm that cannot be readily concealed on the person, i.e. long rifle, that is a federally defined C&R that is at least 50 years old, excluding of course machine guns.

It MUST be more than 50 years old. CZ-52's and M-44's dated 1953 are NOT C&R in California.

True antiques (rifles & pistols manufactured before January 1st, 1899) are exempt because they are not considered firearms.

NO PISTOL or concealable firearm, regardless of C&R status can be ordered from out of state and shipped in, or sold within the state without going through a Class 01 Dealer FFL.

There is now a limit of 1 pistol per 30 day period even if ordered through a dealer. This rule applies to all pistols, including C&R pistols. There currently (subject to change at any time) is an exception to this limit for holders of both a Class 03 (C&R) FFL and COE.

Within California, non dealers, which includes private parties with or without a Class 03 (C&R) FFL license, can sell each other any rifle that cannot be readily concealed on the person that is a federally defined C&R that is more than 50 years old (except to minors, drug addicts and those with felony or certain misdemeanor criminal records). This is supposed to be on an occasional basis only - a fuzzy concept for which you must check the statutes and case law yourself, but a few a year is probably ok. Just don't make a business of it.

ANY transfer by a Class 01 dealer FFL in California, even if it would be exempt if made between private parties, requires a DROS (Dealer Record of Sale), DROS fee ($14+), background check and 10 day wait. If you have a COE, the COE eliminates the wait, but not the DROS background check or its cost.

Any California resident can sell and ship a C&R long rifle to a Class 01 (dealer) or Class 03 (C&R) FFL who resides out of state, subject to the receivers state's laws and the usual federal laws regarding transport. .

It is unclear whether a Class 03 C&R FFL or private party can sell and ship a C&R pistol to an out of state Class 03 C&R FFL. Should you wish to do this, you should call the DOJ and get their opinion before doing the transaction. So long as the transaction complies with federal firearms laws and the local laws of the receiving Class 03 C&R FFL, it should be ok, but there CAN be exceptions. You should make the determination of legality to your own satisfaction BEFORE attempting the transaction.

A federally defined C&R pistol, regardless of age, can be imported into CA if it is legally purchased out of state by a CA resident with a Class 03 C&R FFL and if physical possession of the piece is taken by the Californian Class 03 C&R FFL outside of CA. It can be imported by the CA Class 03 C&R FFL purchaser only - hand carry or UPS to yourself. It must be reported within 5 days to the DOJ on their special form and paying $14. Buying a C&R Makarov with your Class 03 C&R FFL in Las Vegas or Arizona and bringing it back is OK if you register it in 5 days.

A CA Class 01 dealer can sell and ship any C&R pistol or rifle to a Class 03 (C&R) FFL who resides out of state, subject to the receiving Class 03's state laws and the usual federal laws regarding transfer and transport. The transfer must be directly to the out of state address that appears on the FFL; if the non-resident wants to pick it up in CA, all usual rules apply (DROS & 10 day waiting period). You may have to have the dealer call the DOJ to ok this; not all dealers are on top of the C&R laws.

California law requires that a Curio & Relic firearm must be at least 50 years old to be exempt from the dealer transfer requirements. Many federally defined C&R models have manufacturing dates that span the 50 year mark, for example, M44, M31/59, Russian SKS, M1 Garands, etc., and it's perfectly legitimate to buy one you can prove was made in 1949 or before, but illegal to buy one made in 1950 except through a Class 01 FFL dealer in California. Since there is no way to tell the difference with many of these (often the barrel is stamped with a date but the receiver isn't) a dealer SHOULD NOT ship a rifle to a California Class 03 C&R FFL holder that cannot be readily and absolutely dated 1949 or before.

The new "ASSAULT WEAPONS" laws include some C&R, depending on configuration. The DOJ has not issued a weapon specific list (and probably will not), so each semi-auto C&R must be evaluated against the statute. You can find the statue and proposed regulations at the CA DOJ firearms website http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/ You must look at BOTH the statute and the regulations. Other than antiques, defined as manufactured prior to January 1, 1899, which are specifically exempt, ANY semi-auto C&R rifle or pistol is potentially an "assault weapon." An "assault weapon" can NOT be imported, even through a Class 01 (dealer) FFL, except under very restricted (LEO, etc) circumstances. Depending on configuration, "assault weapons" can include M1 carbines, Garands, Mas 49 and 49/56, FN-49, C96 Mauser Broomhandles, etc. All semi-auto firearms are suspect; the law is configuration specific, and removal or addition of a single feature can make a firearm legal, or banned.

A ban on magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds went into effect January 1, 2000. Magazines (this includes MG links) holding more than 10 rounds can no longer be imported into California or transferred within the state. You can not even loan such a magazine except under strictly limited circumstances. This ban includes many C&R magazines, and it applies to all magazines, even those for bolt action rifles (Enfield 12 round.)

Under California law, the only thing a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) does for Class 03 (C&R) FFL holders is that it lets you skip the waiting period for C&R purchased in state from a dealer, and for now allows the purchase of more than one handgun (modern and C&R) per 30 days. You must have both a Class 03 (C&R) FFL and COE to do this! Even with the COE you still have to do a DROS form and background check and pay the fee each time, usually $14 + dealer mark up of $3-$4. So, unless you absolutely can't wait the 10 days, or need to buy more than one pistol per 30 days, the COE is a $72, plus cost of fingerprinting and annual renewal fee that is probably wasted. It is often difficult to convince dealers about what the COE does.

If you don't have a copy of the CA DOJ's "California Firearms Laws 2000" you should download it in PDF format from: http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/2000.pdf

It is not complete and may be misleading in some areas, but it is a good basic guide that will reference code sections for you, which you can then find posted at the DOJ site. You should bookmark the statute page for reference. There is NO substitute for actually reading and understanding the actual text of the statutes: http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/dwcl/index.html

Another useful reference is the current CA edition of "How to Own a Gun & Stay Out of Jail", by John Machtinger, which is sold by most CA gun shops. This book is a must for any CA gun owner.

Thanks to August Brescia for the information on this page. Mr. Brescia is a California attorney specializing in firearm and weapons law. If you get yourself into a "jam" I couldn't possibly recommend anyone better to represent you. Click HERE to contact Mr. Brescia directly if you have any further questions or doubts.

****************************************

So much for the supremacy of Federal Laws.