.308 VS .30-30


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Sir Knight
07-05-2001, 12:11 PM
Not knowing much about rifles, I need to ask what might be a fairly obvious question: Against large, dangerous animals ... which would be more effective a .308 or a .30-30?

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Clemson
07-05-2001, 12:31 PM
The .308 is much more powerful than the .30-30. Neither is a very effective weapon against "large and dangerous" animals, however. The .308 with good bullets carefully placed can kill bear, elk, moose, etc., but it is on the ragged edge of being enough gun for them. I would not try it against a charging lion!

Gunslinger
07-05-2001, 04:46 PM
Hello Clemson and welcome to Triple F.

Alan, what do you have in mind? If your choice is not limited to only those two for some reason maybe we could expand on your choices. For example I'm partial to handgun calibers in rifles. But they are limited in the number of weapons chambered in them and have practical limitations in terms of range.

Bubba
07-05-2001, 04:57 PM
Bill, I think Alan is still worried about that Bear.... :D Alan.... Think 300 Weatherby MAGNUM!!! GRIN

Sir Knight
07-05-2001, 05:03 PM
Bill, I eventually wanna get a rifle. Maybe I can talk my wife into it being a combination birthday / Christmas present since those two days are only a few days apart. The problem is that down here in the hot & humid Florida swamps, things tend to rust. I purchased a brand new Para-Ordnance P14-45 around Thanksgiving 1999 and placed it in the safe unfired. I finally got around to taking it to the range for it's first shooting right after New Year's and it was beginning to show serious signs of rust -- we're talking about six weeks and a gun that has never been fired or carried before!

Because of that experience, I'm thinking "stainless steel" with regard to everything that I buy. The only stainless steel rifles that I am aware of is a Marlin Lever Action rifle in .30-30 and some of the AR-10's in .308 and AR-15's in .223 ... I know how the .223 compares to the .30-30 but I wasn't sure how the .308 compared.

Gunslinger
07-05-2001, 05:32 PM
Cool, now we're gettin' some where and you just hit on something I've got on my wish list. :D
The Navy Arms model 92 is available in stainless. It is built by Rossi and the quality has improved greatly since Navy Arms started stamping their name on the barrel. They are available in .357 mag, .44-40, .44 mag and .45 LC. The action is not strong enough to take hot loads but chambered in either .45 or .44 with the short, 20", carbine barrle they make a great home defense or brush gun.
There are going to be a ton of lever guns here next month for you to try out and see what you think. The model 92 can be had for under $400.
There are also other choices. Remington makes a stainless, synthetic model 700 bolt gun in any caliber in the rainbow. Same with Savage and theirs are affordable. I'm sure others will think of other stainless guns I've over looked.

I know what you mean about the climate and the rust. While living in Key West I learned that the Boca Chica Naval Air Station there is the second most corrosive enviroment where the US has troops permanently stationed. (I have no idea what number one is.) I kept most of my guns packed in rig and stored. I even carried nickle guns as duty weapons because of the rust problem. I was not that big on stainless then and am still not overly fond of it.

Carston
07-05-2001, 08:23 PM
Alan,
Howa makes a darn good .308 1500 Model varmint rifle with a 24 inch SS Heavy Barrel. Savage has a few and so does Ruger in the M77 I think.
As for rust and the safe issue....I read somewhere where a company is selling cans or packets of something better than a disicant, I will see if I can find it. Also I read somewhere that a low watage light works also inside the safe.

Carston

Carston
07-05-2001, 08:54 PM
Alan,
Now if it is Bear you are worried about or gators form a previous post.....Marlin makes a Guide Gun in SS in both .444 and 45/70 out of an 18.5 inch lever gun. I don't think I would want to be the bear or the gator :eek:

Carston

Sir Knight
07-05-2001, 09:16 PM
Carston, I had a dri-rod installed in the safe and I'm feeding it six bags of disicants a week and that seems to be keeping the rust problem under control.

Looking at the 2001 Marlin catalog which arrived in the mail a couple of days ago, I don't see where the .444 is available in SS. Did see the .45-70 in SS -- wonder what kind of kick something like that would have.

Frenchy
07-05-2001, 10:06 PM
If I may offer another option, Alan. You might consider a proprietary protective coating for your gun. You then would not be limited to the original finish on the gun that you decide to purchase. My suggestion would be the GunKote process. This is a Moly/polymer coating that is applied under controlled conditions. It is the finish that the "Seal's" choose for the protection of their weapons.
Mac's GunKote is one of the best at applying this finish, and who's reputation is beyond reproach. The process is very affordable, and can be had in a variety of color's and camo. He can also do stocks and grips with his "Stock Kote' process. I have see his work and was very impressed. he is quite popular with police departments. I'm having the metal parts of my service piece done along with a 98 Mauser Scout Rifle project. Do yourself a favor, and check out his website, as there is some great reading. I guarantee you'll be impressed.

http://www.shootiniron.com/

[ 07-05-2001: Message edited by: Frenchy ]

jim
07-06-2001, 08:16 AM
I'd like to second Frenchy's suggestion about Mack. He does good work and is very fast. several of my friends have had him do work for them and all have been happy.

Bubba
07-06-2001, 08:30 AM
45-70... Now you are talkin some whoop@$$. :D Had a long talk with an old time armorer yesterday on this very subject. Man he had some great tails from early Texas adventures and this calibur.

Carston.. can't believe you didn't mention DSA FAL in SS. :D

There is a new coat out there that many folks have not heard of yet. I have a Colt being done in it right now. MDLabs has there new TefCoat II. They have been using TefCoat on knives for some time. But the process has been improved and is even more durable now. A test piece of O1 steel was coated and has now been kicked around the shop floor for 2 months with no real signs of wear. I have a knife with the older version and even where the coat has worn from drawing in and out of kydex there is no rust. I'll post pictures of the two guns I am having treated once I get them back.

Carston
07-06-2001, 01:39 PM
Humm, Bubba...I didn't know you could get a DSA or any FAL in SS.
Now as for whoop @$$ kick....from a 45/70 just imagine being the bear or the gator. Heck I bet the swamp critters would soon be relocating.
I know www.impactguns.com (http://www.impactguns.com) has a SS something is stock, Alun....send them email and see. It has been there a while.

Carston

Bubba
07-06-2001, 05:23 PM
Yup.... here is a link...
http://www.dsarms.com/SA58Rifles/SA58_Medium_Con_SS.htm

Granted... it is in the $1600 range.... But hey... It's COOL! :D

Me, I think I am gonna look into the Austrian rebuild in carbine size. MSRP $995. On the street... maybe $850-$900 ???

http://www.dsarms.com/SA58Rifles/SA58A_STG58_Austrian_FAL.htm

[ 07-06-2001: Message edited by: Bubba ]

Gunslinger
07-06-2001, 10:08 PM
I've been lusting for an FAL for some time now and that would be the ultimate. But there is no way, at least in this life time, that I could afford one short of selling an organ. :(
I blame fal308 for all of this. If it weren't not for him and his taunting me with his FAL's every time I see him I would not have this insatable craving for one. ;) :D

Bubba
07-07-2001, 08:45 AM
I know what you mean Bill. I have been fighting this urge since last October. I got to play with 2 FALs at last years Knifegnugen. and I have had the bug ever since. I do have a plan however. I think I am going to break one of my long standing rules and sell something. I know I know. BUt I have this Professional Ordnance Carbon-15 AR. I sent it back to them this week and it is SUPPOSE to come put with new guts. If it runs, I may sell it. Then use those funds towards a FAL.

fal308
07-07-2001, 10:02 AM
What, me taunt Slinger just because I have three FAL clones? Nope, no, na, nada, not here :D
I just wish I had the 13" FA entry gun made by DSA and a Browning import or FA Para. Then I could brag :cool:

Old Soldier
07-07-2001, 03:54 PM
Gunslinger, I bought H&K 91A2 back before Klinton made the prices go up. I have the H&K saw bipod on it and a Burris 4X12X40mm mounted in the H&K scope mount. :D :D :D

wendy
07-11-2001, 05:28 PM
Fal, like Slinger neverbrags about his cool stuff! He would however drool over the safe, and we know that it is drool protected. :p

Son
07-13-2001, 12:22 AM
I don't know if this was mentioned or not (coz I didn't read this whole thread yet) but you can get a lever action Marlin 1895GS (Guide Gun) in stainless steel. It's chambered in .45-70. You can kill just about anything in North America with the .45-70 (and right bullet, charge, etc).

PS

Blue, if properly maintained, won't rust. I have blued revolvers, pistols, rifles that are quite old and never saw the evils of rust. Get a rod for your safe.

Son
07-13-2001, 12:29 AM
double tap

[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: Son ]

JT
07-13-2001, 05:20 PM
Alan
I do not know where you live, but I live in so. florida. Rust is a
big problem. I use something called Maxima Chain Wax. You can buy
it at motorcycle shops. I sprayed a o/u Browning and left it in
the attic for 3 years. I sprayed it with WD40 and the chain wax
came right off. Gun looks new.
JT19

Gunslinger
07-13-2001, 09:45 PM
Son, I don't believe Marlin is offering the .45-70 in stainless....yet. I say yet because it looks like they are leaning toward stainless more and more.

JT, welcome to Triple F. That sounds like some good stuff. I'll have to check it out. I used Rig when I lived in Key West and that stuff does not come off easy! Something that wipes off with WD-40 would be great.

jsr5
07-13-2001, 10:06 PM
Doesn't the Marlin Guide Gun come in SS in the new 450 Marlin caliber? I thought I saw one customized to take down in one of the Gun Mags. I belive it was called and Alaskan Special or somthing designed for bush pilots who are required to have a gun for emergencies.

Son
07-13-2001, 11:20 PM
Bill:

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/images/firearmImages/1895GS_Th.jpg

It's the 1895GS right out of Marlin's web site:
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigBore_levrAction/1895GS.htm

Gunslinger
07-13-2001, 11:23 PM
Thanks Son. That is a beauty and perhaps the ultimate lever gun. I'll have to sit and drool at this pic for awhile now. ;)

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