[Jaco]

No new firearm licences are granted here, the politicians won....

You have what you have, which in my case is a .32 pistol, and you have to reapply for it every 5 years, which is not likely to be successfull. So I will probably loose my only gun next year.

So what is the answer for self defense in South Africa? What is still legal? Bows/ crossbows; blackpowder muzzleloaders dating before 1900 or replicas thereof; pepper spray; and the usual knives/axes/batons.

So blackpowder is starting off now in South Africa, for self defense!

We cannot have the inline muzzleloaders, so now I am looking for a cap & ball revolver, a muzzleloading double barelled shotgun, and perhaps a rifle if there is some cash left. And that I will use in the defense of my home, against AK47 wielding attackers!

You see why you have to fight for your rights?

[Marinesg1012]

Jaco- That really sucks, I am not telling you to break the law but i would rather be in jail for shooting some people with an illigal weapon that dead. JMHO though.

[Fug]

That sucks!!

Like Adam said, I would rather be tried by 12 then carried by 6.

[matthewdanger]

Don't worry I am sure that all the criminals will turn in their AK-47s and apply for proper permits and blah blah blah. Hogwash!

I am really sorry about all the garboge that goes on over there Jaco. You ought to start think about migrating.

[armoredman]

We still have lots of room, and Az weather is a lot like SA.. But, if you elect to stay, the veldt is a biiiiig place....trekking, anyone?

[ducktapehero]

Seems like a good reason to move here. Good luck in whatever you do.

[Citizen]

I understand that when this law past on July 1 of this year it has created a big problem with hunters coming into the country.

I can see SA turning into another Kenya in the near future.

[Jaco]

Yes Citizen, we have had apparently quite a few hunters just turn around at the airport, and most of them was US citizens. So now are killing of our hunting industry as well, and with that our conservation, and with that a large part of our heritage and economy. And what is so ironic about it is that the people behind this is the white liberals/turncoats/spineless *******s.

[Rabbi]

Greetings Broer,

Is it legal for you to receive a black powder revolver shipped into your country? If it is legal I will send you one. I will check at my end and see if it is legal in the U.S. to export one to Sud Afrika. What calibers of ball and what type of caps are available to you?

Our hearts are breaking over what you have been telling us over the last year.

De G-d die is met u en u bijhoudt sterk.

Je broer,

Dok

[Jaco]

Rabbi

What took you so long to reply? I wondered when I would see your reply. On the revolver, I decided on .44 caliber and a not too long barrel, because if it is low velocity I will prefer a LARGE ball. They are not available at present due to the demand from people that couldnt get a license in the past year. (I still cannot believe that I am going to carry something like that for SD...) I will mail you on this...

[armoredman]

A Remington 1858 with spare cylinders loaded, can be speedloaded by a determined man faster than a modern revolver can be loaded - I found this the ohard way, shooting against a buddy of mine with his 1858. 44 cap and ball is nothing to sneeze at, and is a choice for a very few out here, due to no paperwork issues. Ballistically equivelent to 38Spl, look at this as a step up! Get the shorter barrel, if possible, or an 1851 Navy Sheriff model for backup. Can you do that?
Good luck

[Sam]

Jaco,
Methinks you best migrate soon. Like quietly liquidate, take a vacation and don't return. You know as well as anyone that reason dosen't work over there and I have doubts as to how long you can wander the backcountry. Pretty bold but it beats wearing a necklace! Better you and the family undertake it now than to try and make it on foot to Lourenco Marques on the sly with half the world looking for a chunk of you

God be with you whatever your choice.

Sam

[Jaco]

Sam,

I have to finish a job here to get enough cash to come to the US, and the I'm coming to a state where one can own a gun, see snow, and where there are lakes and mountains.....

[Sam]

Good man,
Take a picnic and have the family do a little panning on the side.
A bit of unknown disposable income works wonders. Nothing a banker likes better than gold.
Work slowly and quietly as they will not let you take anything of value out of the country, it'll be just like Rhosesia ( I can't bring myself to use the "z" word).

Sam

[armoredman]

Jaco, what can we do to help?

[Jaco]

AM,

Man, as usual thanks for the offer. When I get to that stage I will ask the whole FFF if someone knows someone in my profession in the US, so that I can devise a strategy of how to get there.

In the meantime, send over an M60 with lost of ammo ;)

[Mike Weber]

We might not be able to arrange shipping of an M60, but a percussion revolver and the accoutraments for feeding it and to keep it working might be arranged. Only ones that I know of that are powerful enough for self defense and fairly concealable would be the 1860 Army Colt .44 from Cabela's Which is an 1860 Army with the barrel shortened up to two inches. The pistol comes with a special loading tool as it is too short for a loading lever. I understand the Uberti is making a Sheriffs model version of the Remington New Model Army .44 with a 51/2 inch barrel. These are fine shooting revolvers if a bit bulky for concealed carry. These guns can be quite deadly and very reliable if properly cared for.

[armoredman]

If you can legally take him up on that, please do so. A good black powder revolver used in self defense can be just like a Liberator pistol - a good way to get the FAL and Star M30 - are those still in use in SA?
BTW, your profession is city planner, right?

[Jaco]

Yep, Town and Regional Planner by proffession. The M30 is used by the army, and a Beretta 92 clone by the Police. The rifles are the R4 and R5 rifles, Galil clones.

[matthewdanger]

Sam,

I have to finish a job here to get enough cash to come to the US, and the I'm coming to a state where one can own a gun, see snow, and where there are lakes and mountains.....

Sounds like Pennsylvania! You can own all the guns you want and you can buy with no waiting period. And for 15 minutes of your time and $19 you can carry concealed! There are beautiful mountains and enough (not too much) snow. The hunting is great! Now I wish I was back in Pennsylvania.

[Sam]

Mattherdanger,
What ever gave you the idea that PA didn't get too much snow?
I grew up shoveling all that $#!& and I know better.
Jaco don't listen to hi the hunting is OK but that snow is for the birds.

Sam
By the way, a little enterprise and a short trip to Mugabestan might net you an RPK which would work better for you than a 60.

Sam

[Jaco]

Afrikaners is not sort of reaallly welcomed in Zimbabwe.......

[armoredman]

Nope, only back in the past when it was lovely Rhodesia....
Still need to get that Rhodesian camo. Jaco, got any SA camo? I collect foriegn camo stuff....

[Rabbi]

Jaco,

I've spent the last week getting information and the consensus is that NO firearms, parts, powder or ammo can be shipped from the U.S. to R.S.A. and that even includes air guns as well. That came from four different FFL dealers and a guy who does export some parts to some places. Sud Afrika is OUT.

A few members here contacted me privately, willing to help me with donations to get you set up with some black powder iron. I'm sorry Broer, I really wish there was more that we could do.

There is one possible option I have not tried which I plan to pursue. The area in which I live, western Michigan is home to thousands of people of Dutch descent and MANY of them are heavily involved with the Dutch Reformed Church. The D.R.C. is a very powerful political force in these parts and I'm going to see if any of these local guys might be able to help with sponsorship, which the churches have done in the past. Are you by any chance a member of the D.R.C.? I am sure that being a member would weigh heavily in your favor.

I tried, my friend.

Dok

[Mike Weber]

NO firearms, parts, powder or ammo can be shipped from the U.S. to R.S.A.

Okay then if they cannot be shipped from the U.S. to the R.S.A. then how about from the U.K. or Switzerland to the R.S.A.? And what sort of regulations are faced when they arrive in the R.S.A. We wouldn't want the government to seize them. I have friends in South America who also face difficulties in recieving suitable firearms and ammunition, Mostly due to their government not allowing much selection to be available and they have a very difficult time finding reloading supplies. Where there is a will there is a way.

[Rabbi]

Mike and Jaco,

I e-mailed my Congressman tonight and asked his advice. I got an answer from one of his staffers in one hour stating that he would advise me personally in a few days. He just got a new appontment and is busy, but he's a conservative who has ALWAYS answered questions from my wife and I in the past.

Mike, I didn't respond to your P.M. because I wanted to wait until the situation with your Mrs. was better resolved. Thanks.

Jaco, I also explained your situation with regard to wanting to emigrate to the U.S. He has been supportive of other efforts in this regard and maybe can point me in the right direction as far as who to contact is concerned. I asked if he had any contacts within the church/sponsorship groups or even any punch with INS (our immigration service) or where to turn for help. I am not going to rest until we get your family out of S.A. and into the U.S. This has taken on a personal crusade effort with me.

Take care,

Dok

[Sam]

Jaco,
Wasn't really thinking you would go to (i can't say the Z word). Just bushwhack some idjit for an MG.

I was seriously thinking about heading for Rhodesia when the bottom fell out.
Offers too good to be true usually are. Couple of friends went and paid too much.
Get out before the RSA goes the same way. We got idjits here but when you get down to it we will prevail, and the sheep will get et.
Sam

[armoredman]

I wish I could do more to help....

[Jaco]

AM,

Thanks for the offer, it is really appreciated. At this stage I am gathering information, getting help from members on this forum on certain matters, building contacts, and waiting. My real efforts will start in a few months time, when I will ask the whole of FFF for help.

AM, the camo's I have is only the regulation browns that was used in the Border War, and I don't even know if I still got it. Rhodesian is hard to get, but what you want is old Koevoet camo's and perhaps the old Internal Stability camo's, now that is camo's.
I will start my queries...

Groete

[armoredman]

Thank you, that would be wonderful - if you couldfind them in my size, that would be a plus, but I don't know what sizing you guys use down there.
Do keep us informed of what's going on so we can help - maybe an endorsement from an AZ LE might help you in.

[Jaco]

AM

I will first try to find a source for the camo's.

SA camo's come in three sizes
1. Take this and put it on yer skinny arse!
2. You eyeballing me soldier!!
3. Damn, what did yer mother feed ye?

[armoredman]

Military tailors are the same the world over...I am above average size except a big head....just searched SA camo - nice pattern!

[Popeye]

Reply to your original posting: GET OUT!!

[Hook]

H'lo Jaco,
If you could somehow get any black powder revolver that you wanted, you should look at the Ruger .45 cal. Old Army revolvers.There is a choice of blued or stainless steel and 5 1/2" or 7 1/2" barrels. These have won many black powder matches and with a cylinder swap, can use smokeless powder cartridge loads.


Hook