[Bulletproof]

I saw a H&K G-3 built on an American made receiver and a folding stock AK-47.. which one would you rather have ?

[rotty]

Well of course ill open with all the usual stuff...
what do you want it for?
.308 vs 7.62x39 etc.....
I chose the AK.
ammo is cheaper, and im just not overly fond of he G3/cetme design.....
if i could i would just get both!

[Bulletproof]

just because I want another rifle :up:

[Rabbi]

I like AKs. A lot.

[Popeye]

I voted for the G-3.

In my opinion the AK is a "spray and pray" weapon.

I also like the 7.62x51mm cartridge.

[Old Soldier]

I voited for the G-3/H&K 91 because I have one. :D :D :D :D :D

:psycho: :psycho:

[budroe]

H&K, more gun, more power, more range, more accurate. The primary advantage I've found with the AK is that its lighter and easier to carry (and the ammo is much cheaper).

[Rabbi]

Hey Popeye,

Spray and pray works for me. :)

[Bulletproof]

H&K, more gun, more power, more range, more accurate. The primary advantage I've found with the AK is that its lighter and easier to carry (and the ammo is much cheaper).
that's why the AK-47 is competing with the G-3 :up:

[Popeye]

Rabbi,

I don't see as well as I used to either. ;)

[shoey]

I would probably choose the G3, just cause it has more power and for me would be more useful. I trust the .308 over the 7.62x39 on deer any day. Someone who has a CETME, I read a report on a different site about one. Said he tried to shoot factory .308 ammon and the cartridge didnt fit or stuck in the chamer, or something along those lines. In any case, it didnt work, but the surplus ammo he had gotten worked just fine. Is this the case with all of em?

[soulpony]

I would go with the AK, my huntin bud bought one of the G3's and so did his son, both are nice shootin weapons, my only problem with them is the muzzle break that was put on them, is an absolute ear splitter, and yes I'm wearing ear protection, soft plugs topped with shootin muffs, if a person could readily change that feature I would say go with the G3.

[SBF]

I'd do a G3 myself. Not really "into" the AK style weapons. I bought a MAK-90 back in the day for $190.00 NIB. I shot it a few times and sold it for $200 shortly after. I know they are a rugged design and all but they just don't "work" for me.
Sure wish I still had the MAK though, folks are getting a good dime for them now.

[papa g]

I saw a H&K G-3 built on an American made receiver and a folding stock AK-47.. which one would you rather have ?
if i had the coin i would get both!!! the supply's are going to dry up sooner or later, and if the gummint don't gather them up for scrap, then they will really be high priced down the road. :D ;) :up:

[7.62mmFMJ]

H&K hands down. The purpose of a rifle is to shoot things which implies that accuracy is usually important. The AK-47 is a fine platform for a spray and pray in full auto. In semi-auto is is an inaccurate anemic rifle.

However, the 7.62x51 ia too powerful for full auto and is well known for the punch and for accuracy. The G3 platform will not be extremely accurate, but will be minute of badguy out to 500-600 yards. Head shots will be easy to 200 yards.

That said, the AK-47 in semi-auto would have use in close combat such as defending property and hearth. More than adequate.

[cheekser]

i detest the use of the phrase spray-and-pray when attatched to the AK family of weapons. IMO, one would havbe to do a lot more praying if armed with an AR loaded with FMJ. with that said, chalk upa vote for the AK.

it is lighter, more compact, and cheaper to feed than the G3. the only thing i would advise, is to not buy one of the new WASRs that are equipped with the TAPCO folder, it feels cheap and seems to make the rifle butt-heavy. a laminate-stocked WASR with threaded muzzle and slant brake would be a great start.

[rotty]

btw...if you see a good deal on a CETME and are thinking of getting one...GET IT NOW!
the price will be going up soon from what ive heard.

[RED DOG-40]

.308's RULE...:headbang:~~~I vote...:falsmile:..

[Bulletproof]

I'm too nearsighted to take full advantage of the G3
:D but I like the rifle :up:

[Redrum]

I have both...Not an H&K but a CETME...and I have a SAR1...I love them both. The AK...shoots any 7.63x39...cheap to play!!! The CETME MUST ONLY USE MILSURP .308. Otheriwse it will rip the case off!!!! The best that I have found to use (with zero problems!!!) is the Portugese or the Aussi milsurp .308!!! Mine is in wooden furniture and with all that weight the perceived recoil is about the same as my Bushmaster in .223 (it's ALOT lighter!!) Last week we had a rifle side match at our USPSA match and used the CETME...They told me that the brass flew about 35-40 feet!!! Off hand head shots at USPSA targets at 100 yds were no problem!!! ...just my .02!!!

Anyway...I voted for the G3!!!

[dison]

Since the only use Id have for either of these rifles is for informal plinking, I chose the AK. Ammos cheap enough that I dont need to bother reloading for it, & minute of milkjug accuracy @ plinking ranges.
That being said, I'd really love to have both, and an AR, and a M1A, and a Garand, and a Springfield, and a FAL, et al. But as Im a college student and on an almost noexistant gun budget right now, I'll take an AK.

[Bulletproof]

In my opinion the AK is a "spray and pray" weapon.

sophistry : n : a deliberately invalid argument displaying ingenuity in reasoning in the hope of deceiving someone...aka B.S

I don't buy a full capacity firearm so I can send unaimed fire all over God's creation..just because I have a Wondernine does not mean I'm not going to use my sights..I get tired of reading this type of drivel

[Rabbi]

Easy, Bulletproof. That was stated as an opinion ................

Disagreeing with you doesn't make it drivel.

[guy sajer]

20 years ago I bought a new Hungarian 85M folder . It was reliable and would group at about 3-4 inches at 100yds (usually 4") . Ammo was the early 1970's Chinese ammo . Mildly corrosive , stinky and very dirty , but it worked and was cheap . It was boring in it's consistancy . Reliable with adequate accuracy . I've owned several Chinese guns as well . They were reliable , but not quite as accurate . The present Romanian variations seem equally reliable and also inexpensive . You can have a lot of fun for 1/3 the cost of the PTR 91 US mfg HK clone .

For milk jugs , plinking and home defense the AK is a great choice . :)

If you want the HK type rifle , I'd recommend the US PTR series or an original HK . I've owned the original HK93 .223 rifle and presently an HK91 . 1 moa is not difficult .

Not trying to start trouble with those that are happy with theirs , but the Century Arms HK/Cetme parts guns are to be avoided . imo . I've seen many and they are "hit or miss" . Usually the latter . Very sloppy assembly and malfunctions galore . I'm sure some people are pleased with theirs and I'm not knocking their choice , but I've seen many that were awful :down:

Presently , I don't own an AK . I do have the HK91 . My tastes change . Someday I may buy another . Maybe one of the Arsenal rifles with milled receiver . They seem like they are extremely well made rifles .

[budroe]

There are lots of ways to compare the AK to the M-4, and in several ways the AK will come out ahead. However in two properly maintained weapons I'd opt for the M-4 over the AK any day. Not an expert, but I've used both weapons in combat several times. It is easy to keep a 3-5 shot burst on a mansize target at 100 yards with the M-4, try the same thing with the AK (especially under combat conditions) and I think you'll find it is more likely to have one to two hits (if any). The M-4 is readily adaptable to most any optical sight you wish to use with it. The AK can be used with optical sights, but the mounting system isn't as easy to set up. And the new model AK-74's use a smaller caliber bullet than the M-4, and you're seeing more and more of them in the field these days. I know a lot of guys in Iraq and Afghanistan that can pretty much pick the weapon they use; the majority go with the M-4. Familiarity has a lot to do with it, but it does get the job done. I just like a .308 better. And if anyone thinks the AK is fun to play with, they would love the AK-74.

[Popeye]

Sophistry? I think not! I speak from experience. The experience of being shot at by the much vaunted AK-47 and regularly missed.

The Combloc AK-47 has a flawed design. The barrel "flexes and jumps" every time a round is fired. This alone makes it an extremely inaccurate weapon for aimed fire. The trigger on these weapons is atrocious at best. It must be jerked not pulled.

It is my firm belief that I and many others are alive today because of these design flaws.

The proper usage of this weapon system is to jerk the trigger and pray that someone runs in front of a bullet. It works best in automatic fire as a supression weapon. Thus "spray and pray".

[budroe]

Amen to what Popeye just said. The whole concept behind the introduction of the AK-47 was for use in full auto fire by massed troops at close range. That's why the Soviets were so big on the bmp's (sorry, I think that's what their troops carriers were called). They wanted to run masses of troops in against the enemy, dismount and overwhelm the opposition with larger numbers and auto fire.

While I wouldn't want to be hit with a round from either weapon, I totally agree with Popeye; I'd much rather be shot at with the AK (not that its an enjoyable experience) than with an M-4, and certainly, getting shot at by the G-3/HK91 would ruin your day.

[BrockthePaine]

I've heard that the G3 is a more reliable long arm than the AK. This true?
BCP

[Redrum]

I've heard that the G3 is a more reliable long arm than the AK. This true?
BCP
Reliable as in more accurate in longer distance shooting...yes...more reliable in function....there is nothing that is more resiliant and takes the abuse than an AK...Load it , bury it ...come back in a few weeks...Kick the bolt loose (it it sure to be rusted) and it will fire!!! The tolerances are mich greater in the AK than in the G3...But for some reach out and touch someone theory...I'd go with the G3 and the .308!!! I'm lovin' the .308 more each time I shoot it!!!:up:

[Bulletproof]

there is nothing that is more resiliant and takes the abuse than an AK...
sounds like a Glock :up:

[Redrum]

sounds like a Glock :up:
but can you find one in 7.62x39 or .308??????:dunno:

[SBF]

I've heard that the G3 is a more reliable long arm than the AK. This true?
BCP

I saw a very interesting thread on another forum about a year ago pertaining to the durability/reliability of the AK style action. It seems the guy had his AK out to the range and expended an awful lot of ammo. It wasn't till he got home and field stripped the weapon for cleaning that he saw that a piece of spent brass had somehow lodged itself under the reciever cover and had basically functioned as a bolt buffer for who knows how long. It was literally smashed flat. He never noticed anything wrong with his weapon as it never quit firing. It don't get more reliable than that :D

[Marinesg1012]

And if anyone thinks the AK is fun to play with, they would love the AK-74

Yup these things are sweet, especialy the full auto :D

But give me a M16, or if I NEED to have the shorter gun a M4 I just dont care for the safety or the ease of mag changes in the AK (that lip sucks)
BUT to each thier own, that is why we live in America :D

[guy sajer]

If you're leaning towards the AK , you might take a closer look at the EAA Saiga "sporter" . They come in 7.62x39 , .223 and .308 . They cost quite a bit less than the "AK" military looking rifles . The 7.62 will accept the 30 rd AK mags if you want it .

[TODD 3465]

Sophistry? I think not! I speak from experience. The experience of being shot at by the much vaunted AK-47 and regularly missed.

The Combloc AK-47 has a flawed design. The barrel "flexes and jumps" every time a round is fired. This alone makes it an extremely inaccurate weapon for aimed fire. [Oh really? Guess what, every rifle barrel flexes and jumps" to some extent when fired.] The trigger on these weapons is atrocious at best. It must be jerked not pulled.[That's knews to me as everyone I've fired had a fairly light, though not always smooth trigger.]

It is my firm belief that I and many others are alive today because of these design flaws.[More likely the poor marksmanship training of those shooting at you.]
The proper usage of this weapon system is to jerk the trigger and pray that someone runs in front of a bullet.[No it should be aimed before firing like any other weapon. Just thank God most of our enemies have not figured that out.] It works best in automatic fire as a supression weapon. Thus "spray and pray".

Just my .02 on this matter. Buy one of the US assembled Bulgarian AK types with a milled reciever.

[BrockthePaine]

If I can have an opinion on the matter... IMHO, the AK-47 is a workable choice for almost anything under 100 meters. As long as you don't expect too much of it, it won't let you down. I'd say it's a good weapon to take into the jungle with you, because it should drop just about anything you'd meet, and the range won't be much. It is primarily because of Soviet tactical doctrine, rather than the constraints of the rifle, that the AK is thought of as Spray-and-Pray. There are many good AKs (the Israeli Galil for example) and there are bad AKs. Outside of that 100 meters... upgrade me to the Dragunov or M14, please.

Side note, I've tried voting but it doesn't like me???

BCP

[cookiemonster]

Several people have hit upon the basic answer....there are two theories behind the two weapons...

The Kalashnikov was designed so that a peasant (no insult intended...)could field strip and fix the thing...

you give that same man a Mattel....jeez...that poor individual is going to be stuck...

All of it boils down to is tactics and training...one side you have conscripted forces....other side you have an all volunteer force that must meet educational requirments to even enlist...I don't want to make people think I am oversimplifiying this...but its true...

I have a friend that you can go to his appt. and can't turn around without seeing SOME kind of warsaw pact weapon...his most accurate is a Bulgarian AK-74...the 5.45 round is a VERY nice round...I just wish they had some boxer stuff I would get a custom chamber in my TC..but I digress...

It will shoot "minute of can" at 150 meters when all is good. He had a nice Cetme...and I hated what it did to brass...ugh...almost turn you away from reloading...almost. :) But the key thing is, it was a heckuva lot more accurate...and don't get me started about FAL's....If someone would offer me an M1A NM I would take it, sell it and buy me TWO FALS and make them both nice, accurate rifles and STILL have some cash left over....

MTCW
Darrell

[7.62mmFMJ]

cookiemonster :up: - another FAL fan :up: Rugged, dependable, easy to maintain, accurate, simplistic design :up: And, of course, chambered for the 7.52x51mm

[Popeye]

TODD 3465.

DO NOT! I SAY AGAIN, DO NOT add to my posts and then use them as quotes!

[Big Jake]

When it absolutely, positively, needs a great BIG accurately delivered HOLE in it, go G3 or clone (CETME, HK91, PTR91, etc.). :up:

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/PTR-left_1.jpg

[Sharpsdressed Man]

I owned an HK91 years ago, and never developed a fondness for it due to being punched in the chin half the time I shot it. I'm not a wimp for recoil, but the design, combined with the short stock, didn't fit me. Also, scoping it was expensive and without the raised stock cheekpiece, was awkward. A .308 will reach and punch, but the AK digs pretty deep, too, and my distances in Ohio, even to go tactical and commando, would mostly be 300-400yards or less(the dang hills, trees, and buildings get in the way!). I've since, and recently, acquired AK's in 7.62 and 5.45. The 7.62 AK is my "go-to" weapon, but with upgraded stocks, and a Zeiss Z-point sight on a Ultimak gas tube base. Pretty slick sighting, and now Larue has a Burris red dot sight that is also interesting, making the the weak point of the AK (the sights) go away. A 20 round mag in a folding stock AK fits in a surplus M60 "barrel" bag like it was made for it. With pockets for extra mags, ammo, etc, the AK can give an AR OR a full "battle" rifle a run for its money. I vote AK! But, I recently have been eyeing a Garand "Mini-G" (just a tad longer than the M1 carbine). SEE keywords Shuff's Mini-G at gunbroker.com. Might be something I need to have.......

[will46]

Just noticed the date on this thread! :D Anyway, I think the HK has it hands down over any AK. Quality, cartridge, etc.

[Tim Shufflin]

I owned an HK91 years ago, and never developed a fondness for it due to being punched in the chin half the time I shot it. I'm not a wimp for recoil, but the design, combined with the short stock, didn't fit me. Also, scoping it was expensive and without the raised stock cheekpiece, was awkward. A .308 will reach and punch, but the AK digs pretty deep, too, and my distances in Ohio, even to go tactical and commando, would mostly be 300-400yards or less(the dang hills, trees, and buildings get in the way!). I've since, and recently, acquired AK's in 7.62 and 5.45. The 7.62 AK is my "go-to" weapon, but with upgraded stocks, and a Zeiss Z-point sight on a Ultimak gas tube base. Pretty slick sighting, and now Larue has a Burris red dot sight that is also interesting, making the the weak point of the AK (the sights) go away. A 20 round mag in a folding stock AK fits in a surplus M60 "barrel" bag like it was made for it. With pockets for extra mags, ammo, etc, the AK can give an AR OR a full "battle" rifle a run for its money. I vote AK! But, I recently have been eyeing a Garand "Mini-G" (just a tad longer than the M1 carbine). SEE keywords Shuff's Mini-G at gunbroker.com. Might be something I need to have.......


I have one.