Florida boosts gun rights, igniting a debate


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Hook
05-09-2005, 07:57 PM
A new law allows residents to employ 'deadly force' in public places - part of a new nationwide drive by gun lobby.

Jacqui Goddard

MIAMI – When 16-year-old Mark Drewes knocked on a neighbor's door in Boca Raton, Fla., and then ran away as a prank, he was shot dead by homeowner Jay Levin. Mr. Levin, who said afterward that he mistook the boy for a robber out to attack him, was sentenced to 52 weekends in jail for manslaughter.
Now, 18 months later, the state has enacted a law that opponents fear will only encourage more gun owners like Levin to adopt a "shoot first, think later" approach - and this time get away without punishment. But others see the new measure, which allows people to meet "force with force" in public places without fear of punishment, as a vital way for people to protect their homes and families.

The law is kicking off a fierce new debate over the availability of guns in society - one that extends way beyond Florida.

Eighteen years ago, the state adopted legislation allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons in public places. It became the impetus for dozens of other states to pass similar laws.

Now the powerful National Rifle Association (NRA) has chosen Florida to launch this latest gun initiative, in hopes of once again taking its campaign nationwide. Consequently, lobbyists on both sides are gearing up for a national fight.

This law "worries me terribly," says Sarah Brady, chair of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "This is just a license to kill."

Building on a preexisting statute known as the "castle doctrine," the new law seals the right of residents to employ "deadly force" to protect their homes and vehicles.

Most significantly, it now extends that right to public places, too, meaning that a person no longer has a duty to retreat from what they perceive to be a threatening situation before they are entitled to pull the trigger. Members of the public may now stand their ground and "meet force with force," it states, without fear of criminal prosecution or civil litigation. "It's common sense to allow people to defend themselves," said Gov. Jeb Bush (R) as he signed the new law.

OK Corral or safety measure?

Ms. Brady believes that far from making sense, the new law provides gun owners a legal screen behind which to hide during confrontations and "threatens to enable every rogue with an itchy trigger finger." "It's a terrible precedent," she says. "I am sorry that Florida had to be a test-ground, but I think what has gone on there should be a wakeup call for the rest of the country to stand up and fight this."

Gun advocates reject the notion that the new law leaves too great a margin of error, however. They also dismiss critics' talk of a Wild West revival and the assertion by Democratic Rep. Irv Slosberg, one of only 20 state lawmakers who opposed the bill, that it will promote vigilantism, "sell more guns, and possibly turn Florida into the OK Corral."

The law empowers the public, they argue, and should be used to send a powerful message to would-be criminals across the country. "You can't expect a victim to wait before taking action to protect himself and his family and say, 'Excuse me, Mr. Criminal, are here you breaking into my home to rape and kill me or are you just here to beat me up and steal my TV set? And by the way what kind of weapon do you have?' " Marion Hammer, an NRA lobbyist who was a driving force behind the bill, told the legislature during debate.

Ms. Hammer, a former president of the NRA, adds: "This puts the law on the side of the victim. For too long, the law has been protecting criminals. Law-abiding people only want to be able to protect themselves, and they are sick and tired of our court system saying they can't."

Why Florida is the launchpad

Florida seemed an obvious target for the NRA as a launchpad for such legislation. It has long been a supporter of more rights for gun owners. Not only was it an early adherent of allowing concealed weapons, but the castle-doctrine legislation moved through the state legislature with alacrity. The measure was unopposed in the GOP-dominated Senate and passed the House of Representatives by a vote of 94 to 20. Many Democrats admitted that they did not want to appear soft on crime by voting against it.

State Attorney General Charlie Crist (R), due to announce his candidacy for the 2006 gubernatorial race this week, was among law-enforcement figures who backed the bill, though others such as Miami police chief John Timoney and Broward County Sheriff Ken Jenne spoke against it, warning that it is ripe for misuse.

Higher firearm deaths

Florida suffers 11.3 deaths by firearms per 100,000 people. The national average is 10.5. The NRA says there is no evidence that relaxed gun controls are to blame for Florida's higher-than-average toll. The lobbying group points out that since Florida enacted its "concealed carry" legislation 18 years ago, violent crime has been almost halved in the state. Of the more than 1 million Floridians who have been issued with gun permits, it adds, less than 1 percent have had them revoked for misuse.

"In 1987, the gun-haters said all the same things as they are saying now - that there would be blood in the streets, that Florida would become the Wild West. None of that happened then and it isn't going to happen now," says Hammer.

Brady - whose husband, former White House press secretary Jim Brady, was left disabled after being shot in the head during the 1981 assassination attempt on President Reagan - speaks as a victim as well as a campaigner. "This law isn't a deterrent, it sets a terrible precedent. At ballgames, in bars, on the streets, this is going to endanger the lives of innocent folks and put them in the line of fire, just like my husband was," she says.


http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0510/p02s02-ussc.html




Hook

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Popeye
05-09-2005, 08:15 PM
Florida suffers 11.3 deaths by firearms per 100,000 people. The national average is 10.5.
I wonder who's getting killed. Bad guys?

NavyChief
05-09-2005, 08:25 PM
I wonder who's getting killed. Bad guys?Uhmm, as a matter of fact, by and large, yes - by other bad guys. Gee, there's a shocker, huh? Speaking just from the Jacksonville area, most of our shootings happen in - shall we say - "certain" areas predominantly, and largely involve specific - uhmm - socio-economic groups. As for this opener...When 16-year-old Mark Drewes knocked on a neighbor's door in Boca Raton, Fla., and then ran away as a prank, he was shot dead by homeowner Jay Levin. Mr. Levin, who said afterward that he mistook the boy for a robber out to attack him, was sentenced to 52 weekends in jail for manslaughter....the outcome would likely be the same. As I pointed out on a radio show Saturday, the police are still going to investigate, and the shooter is still going to have to show their use of force was justified.

7.62mmFMJ
05-09-2005, 09:26 PM
This article was written by an emotion-driven bed-wetter. No facts necessary.

Marinesg1012
05-09-2005, 11:18 PM
I like the law and I hope it inspires more like it.

NavyChief
05-10-2005, 08:41 AM
This law "worries me terribly," says Sarah Brady, chair of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "This is just a license to kill."No, it's actually a license to defend yourself.Ms. Brady believes that far from making sense, the new law provides gun owners a legal screen behind which to hide during confrontations and "threatens to enable every rogue with an itchy trigger finger."Actually, no, it doesn't. As stated elsewhere, the police still have an obligation to investigate - and despite what some would like to think - the police are actually fairly smart and can sort out "justified use" from "mutual combat" pretty readily most of the time."This law isn't a deterrent, it sets a terrible precedent. At ballgames, in bars, on the streets, this is going to endanger the lives of innocent folks and put them in the line of fire, just like my husband was," she says.Ah, so we should trust the police to protect us then, right? Let's see - how many FBI/SS/etc were surrounding your husband and RR when the shooting occurred? Oh. Another point - it's already against the law to carry firearms in bars and sporting events - so where are these guns coming from? Certainly not from legal carriers. When I pointed that out on the radio the attorney/hosts backpedaled and said, "Well, ball bat or whatever." OK, then why does everyone keep talking about guns? We went to break and picked up somewhere else after that...

Popeye
05-10-2005, 11:35 AM
Typical Brady babble. Nothing more.

Hook
05-10-2005, 03:54 PM
I kinda thought this article would raise more hackles than it has. :D :D



Hook

dipodomys
05-10-2005, 04:07 PM
Pray for poor Sarah. Her mind is out there somewhere.

NavyChief
05-10-2005, 05:29 PM
I kinda thought this article would raise more hackles than it has.Nah - after a while you're just reminded of the Gipper's comment during one of his debates with Carter back in '80, "Well, there he goes again..." The shame of it is, it's almost become too easy to refute their arguments. They just keep trotting the same ones out time after time that have already been debunked time and again. I firmly believe that's also why more and more folks that were originally sympathetic to the gun control crowd are no longer paying them much mind. While they are certainly still a threat that we can't take eyes off of, they have very nearly spouted and sputtered themselves into irrelevancy.

Jim V
05-10-2005, 09:44 PM
You guys want to chip in and we'll send her a couple of cartons of Pall Malls?

Old Soldier
05-10-2005, 10:55 PM
:censor: no, they cost to much and she is now worth that much.




:psycho: :psycho:

NavyChief
05-11-2005, 07:41 AM
:censor: no, they cost to much and she is not worth that much.




:psycho: :psycho:...I could get 'em at the Coast Guard Commisary - they're a lot cheaper there. (Cheaper, in fact, than the Navy Exchange. Never have quite figured that out. Of course, I also wonder why we even have Commisaries and Exchanges stateside - most of the time you're much better off, price-wise, just going to the local WallyWorld/Target/whatever.)

Old Soldier
05-11-2005, 08:36 AM
:agreed: :exactly:





:psycho: :psycho:

7.62mmFMJ
05-11-2005, 09:10 AM
Of course, I also wonder why we even have Commisaries and Exchanges stateside - most of the time you're much better off, price-wise, just going to the local WallyWorld/Target/whatever.)

Have you ever seen a gubbiment program sunset?

NavyChief
05-11-2005, 09:18 AM
Have you ever seen a gubbiment program sunset?True dat. But I tell ya' what - if they were serious about wanting to free up money in DoD for war-fighting and troop salaries, those'd be a place to start. I'm not even gonna get started on all the waste I see on an almost daily basis...

7.62mmFMJ
05-11-2005, 09:38 AM
I remember it well. ALmost like an inner-city trap for people that are unable to get off base - a racket :mad:

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