[Jim101]

OK, if you had $400 to buy a new 9mm, what would you get? I am looking for a fun gun/carry gun....

Thanks,

Jim

[MtJerry]

Ruger ... price is right and it will shoot every time you pull the trigger. Several models to chose from.

[Popeye]

A lightly used CZ-75B

[Sir Knight]

http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/content/00/01/32/32/75/userimages/104531_item.jpg (http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293500&item=831354&sw_activeTab=1)
Well, I was going to suggest the Smith & Wesson 3913TSW (http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293500&item=831354&sw_activeTab=1), which is one of the best selling compact 9mm's around. However, it's a bit more that $400. Used ones can be had for that amount but then again, you also said that you were looking at 'new'. You may also want to consider the Smith & Wesson 9mm Chief Special (http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293580&item=831376&sw_activeTab=1) -- it isn't as good as the 3913 but it is cheaper in price.
http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/content/00/01/32/32/75/userimages/103887_item.jpg (http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293580&item=831376&sw_activeTab=1)

[Tom]

I have both the CZ75B and the Springfield Arms XD9. Both are excellent weapons although the XD9 is lighter since it is a polymer frame. Both can be had for around $450.

[Mapanggulo]

Anyone have any experience with the S&W Sigma line?? I've looked at these and handled them...they seem like a reasonable firearm for the price. Very good feel to them IMO and I believe they are usually under the $400 mark.

[Kenneth in NC]

Taurus PT-911 I enjoy shooting mine. Never had a problem and accuracy is better than I expected.


Kenneth

[combat effective]

I would say Ruger, but a CZ would be a good option as well.

[Niagarafallss1]

For some reason I am leaning towards a SpringField XD in 9.

[matthewdanger]

A used Glock 17/19, a used CZ compact of some sort, or an XD. Can't go wrong with any of those choices.

[7.62mmFMJ]

Taurus PT-92 :hide: Beretta 92 knock-off, stone-cold reliable, ~$350 new :up:

[Redrum]

I concurr with Tom and Niagrafalls...XD-9!! Around here they are around $425-$450

[Skirmisher]

My vote, XD9. I love mine. Easy to shoot, easy to clean, easy to carry. :D

[Jim101]

Thanks for the input, I have been leaning to the Springfield XD from the write-ups on it. The Taurus PT-111 + PT-92 is interesting also. I am going to research those and see what I come up with. This past week I shot my son's XD .40, nice gun, nice feel to it... As far as companies go, is Taurus and Springfield about the same, for this price range, as far as the quality that goes into the gun? Can the grips be changed on either one? I am going with the poly models..

Thanks again,

Jim

[7.62mmFMJ]

The XD and PT-111 are poly grips - not much to do with them. The PT-92 will take Taurus/Beretta aftermarket grips.

[budroe]

$450 for a glock 19.

[Jim101]

Bud,


I'm not really a Glock guy. I'll be going with either the Springfield or a Taurus,
I now to figure out which one.....

Thanks,
Jim

[Gwhizzer]

Had my G19 for 2yrs now. Never hiccuped or coughed. Eats anything I stuff in it.
Gwhizzer

[gordon gauge]

Picked up a used Sig P226 w/ night sights and two magazines in that price range. Excellent firearm, very mild recoil and easy to shoot fast and accurately. :)

[budroe]

Jim, that's why we have so many fine choices to pick from. Everyone has their own idea what they like. I like and trust the Glock, but do hate being told which handgun to carry when my butt is on the line. If given a choice I'd be carrying my Colt Commander here in the sandbox. Doesn't hold as many rounds, but I've had it so long I feel very comfortable with it on my hip. And I do prefer the .45acp (again, everyone has their own favorite caliber too). Hard to go wrong with any of the suggestions listed above. Good luck with your decision.

[Jim101]

Bud,

That is what it's all about, what you feel comfortable with.. I'm leaning toward the Springfield XD, Taurus is second, only because of what I have been reading on the poly frame's cracking problems. That 24/7 sure looks/feels like a good carry also.... I'm not going to jump into buying it, after all looking is all the fun..

Thanks,

Jim

[Trainman]

Don't forget to give the Bersa mini 9mm a look. GF and I love ours. And TT & L $400 is the best bargain around.

[Incitatus1]

GLOCK 19

No other gun is so:

1.simple - 16 parts only, you only need to remove and clean one: the barrel.
2.reliable - proven by several comparative firing tests.
3.easy to learn.
4.quick to fire when needed - all safeties are automatic.
5.indestructible - Glock's mud, ice, water and sand tests are notorious.
6.nasty looking, true COMBAT pistol.

[Popeye]

That is debatable.

[Incitatus1]

Here's a link to a thread where this guys been abusing his Glock 21 for some time now:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=13658

Click on the link then jump to page two of the thread to see some pictures that would make owners of 1911, S&W, Beretta or H&K feel very sick.

It's starting like this:

I'm working on the pics....

Finished round one.


Play Sand
Potting Soil
Baby Powder
1 bucket of water for cleaning
2 buckets for mixing ingredients.

This entire process took place over 45 minutes. The pistol was never field stripped, and the only cleaning was dunking in a bucket of dirty water.

Sand
Boring, but gotta do it. Used play sand, good consistency.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/a_sand1.jpg

Need a little pressure so 10lb sledge was used to slightly pack it in place.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/a_sand2.jpg

shot after buried, loaded, closed slide
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/sand1.mpg)

shot after buried, loaded, slide open
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/sand2.mpg)

Potting soil, a good mix various dirt and junk.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/b_dirt1.jpg

slide open
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/b_dirt2.jpg

shot after buried, loaded, closed slide
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/dirt1.mpg)

shot after buried, loaded, slide open
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/dirt2.mpg)


Baby Powder, fine enough to get into everything.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/c_powder1.jpg

slide open
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/c_powder2.jpg

shot after buried, loaded, closed slide
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/powder1.mpg)

shot after buried, loaded, slide open
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/powder2.mpg)




Mud (potting soil and water)
Nice sticky mess
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/d_mud1.jpg

remember this is from one test to another, it now has sand, dirt, and powder in it.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/d_mud2.jpg
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/d_mud3.jpg
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/d_mud4.jpg

shot after buried, loaded, closed slide - started to get messy.
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/mud1.mpg)

shot after buried, loaded, slide open
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/mud2.mpg)

Rinse time
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/e_rinse.jpg

Paste – Baby powder and water. Stupid idea.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/f_paste1.jpg
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/f_paste2.jpg

shot after paste, didn’t even try it with the slide open.
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/paste.mpg)

Needs a rinse and mag through to help dry. The mag was empty before the water quit pouring out!
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/afterpasterinse.mpg)


Lets dump everything into one bucket and mix it together.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/g_all1.jpg

That’s about the limit
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/all.mpg)

The mag is full of crud, the trigger must be pulling at 20lbs, time to rinse again and see field strip.
I wonder if the stone wedged in the transfer bar had anything to do with the heavy trigger?
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/stripped.jpg

For overnight, it will soak outside in a the rinse water mixed with a dose of rock salt.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/saltstew.jpg

good night
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/saltsoak.jpg


I used 1 target for the test, paced 35’ feet away. Not bad considering half the time I couldn’t see the sights. The increased weight of the trigger must have had me pulling to the right.
Need to take more than 1 magazine next time. There were a few times the mag was so full of stuff I only only fit 10 or 11 rounds. I think some of the FTF were partially the mag.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/target.jpg


Took the glock out of the salt water, and ran 500rds through it. Sorry, would have done 1K, but this was PAINFUL. No cleaning or oil, since the last tests.


http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/500brass.jpg

I learned I have an aimed rate of fire of 100RPM :-)
Attempted to load several mags at once and blast through one at a time. After the 3rd mag my hand was almost numb, and I had to really hor at holding on. Need to shoot 2 mags rest a couple minutes and shoot 2 more.
partial video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/partial500.mpg)

I dont have room on my server for the whole video, but I think TheRicker may be able to host it later. The spliced together video documents every shot. Count the rounds if you want, I think he caught them all.

Time to stick my hand in a bag of ice.http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_dead.gif Not the smartest thing I've done....
Salt water is nasty. Looks like all the tennifer pieces are fine, but untreated parts didnt stand a chance. I believe the rust on the barrel dripped down from the guide rod and should wipe right off.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/saltedglock.jpg


I'm not physically able, my hand is too sore from the other day still. Its just discolored, everything slides, clicks, and sproings just fine. I'm going to clean everything and see what is actually rust and what is just "runoff".

I'll keep those springs until they breakhttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gif

http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/saltedparts.jpg

Good as new, almost. The Guide rod has pitting dammage, and so does the slide lock but thats the only evidence remaining. The locking block must have tennifer along with all the pins. The sopts on the bottom of the barrel discolored the finish, but the metal is still glass smooth. The other parts must be stainless steel, as it rubbed off, but didnt wipre righ off like the barrel and slide.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/cleanparts.jpg

[7.62mmFMJ]

I believe it. The Glock was designed for torture. I am sure that the USP will also pass this test. I own a 21C and a USP45TAC and will never get rid of them.

However, the Glock is not for everyone. Grip angle, "safe action trigger", lack of mechanical safety.........all bother some.

If we all had Glocks it would be a boring world :up:

[Dennis Foote]

Taurus PT-92 :hide: Beretta 92 knock-off, stone-cold reliable, ~$350 new :up:

+1 :D

[Richard]

I would look at a good used S&W M6906 for about $275. I have one and it has earned my respect. Regards, Richard :D

[Incitatus1]

I believe it. The Glock was designed for torture. I am sure that the USP will also pass this test. I own a 21C and a USP45TAC and will never get rid of them.

However, the Glock is not for everyone. Grip angle, "safe action trigger", lack of mechanical safety.........all bother some.

If we all had Glocks it would be a boring world :up:
Sorry to dissapoint you about the H&K.
Here is what I found on page 10 of the same test:




A customer came to me last week with his USP .45 Compact he had just gotten it back from HK who had replaced a broken trigger bar. It has fewer than 1K rounds through it, and is well taken care of. He asked me if I would trust a pistol that broke, and was fixed by the factory. I said no. He asked me to run 500rds through it and see what happened.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/21andUSP.jpg

I took his pistol and 8 magazines, My 21 and 8 magazines, and 1K rounds of ammo.
Both pistols were field stripped and blown completely clean and dry with compressed air.
2 mags were emptied in clean condition to make sure everything was fine.

For the fist comparison I threw a couple handfuls of play sand in a bucket.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/glockuspbuckets.jpg

bucket shake (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/bucketshake.mpg)

I took each pistol, full mag, round in the chamber and shook it in the sand for a few seconds. I did this first with the 21 and it went bang 13 times as expected.

I pulled the USP compact out of the bucket(it was loaded but decocked), pulled the trigger, hammer falls but no bang. I pull the trigger again and still no bang. Not a squib, and not a delay. I cycle the slide and eject the cartridge, but it fails to go into battery. I repeat, while shaking out sand, until the magazine is empty. After removing the slide blowing the frame out with compressed air I repeat the test.
wont lock (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/wontlock.mpg)
Back in the bucket, shake, attempt to shoot – exact same results. Field strip and blow out with compressed air. This was attempted 4 times, with 4 different magazines. The first shot did go off once, but did not lock up for the following round. Again it required fieldstripping to function.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/bucketsandresultsUSP2.jpg


OK, it doesn’t work in sand. For a different twist, I took a UPS mag and a glock mag and threw them in the bucket and shook them up.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/bucketsandmags.jpg

I picked up the 21 mag, loaded the pistol, pulled the trigger 13 times. I then picked up the USP mag, pulled the trigger once and it went bang. The slide failed to close on the second round. Ejecting the 2nd round partially inserted the 3rd but also a bunch of sand. The USP mags have basically a shovel extending for the slide stop, which proved them useless combined with the sand.


Sand is over, time for good old potting soil. Potting soil was basically a repeat of the sand. The USP never went bang once. Even with a round in the chamber, and numerous hammer strikes, nothing.
hammer (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/hammerhits.mpg)
Cycling by hand ejected round, but would not lock up on the following round.


After that we gave up, on the USP and took turns emptying the several full 21 mags.

I’ll return the customers pistol and his 500 rounds. This USP compact went bang every time clean, so it works fine. I would never trust it though, as a carry piece.

[Popeye]

Why would any sane person do that to a firearm unless they hated said firearm? Or possibly to muddy the waters?

The 1911 served admirably in WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam and many "police actions". It is still being used by non-traditional US forces today.

The 1911 doesn't need to try to impress the uninformed with "tests". It is combat proven. It works.

Gaston Glock has a better PR Department than he has a Design Team.

[Redrum]

That guy has WAY to much time on his hands....

[matthewdanger]

I love my Glock but I have always thought that Gaston Glock and Lynn Thompson (of Cold Steel Knives) should get together. They would be the best of buds. Can you imagine the hours of bull dookie they could spew?!?!

I don't have the money or time to purposely rust a firearm.

[texasalien]

JIM101, I don't have an XD-9 but I have shot my youngest son's. The XD pointed well for me, was very comfortable to shoot and is one that is said to take a great deal of abuse and keep on shooting. It would be an excellent, choice in my opinion. In the $400 range, I would also consider a CZ 75 Compact or (if you can find one) a Jericho 941 FB. The little Jericho is my personal favorite and is very concealable, though a bit heavy at 33 oz., empty. I would also be on the look out for a used Sig 228 if you are commited to 9 mm (CDNN will often have 228s in that price range).

Man, that narrows the field - not. Happy Hunting!

[Tom]

Jim101 ~ I suggestted the XD9 or the CZ75b in an earlier post. There is not much you can do to the grip of the XD because it is polymer. I have bigger than normal hands so I put a grip sleeve with finger grooves on it and it fits my hand rather well now. I probably have around 3-4,000 rounds through it and have never had one single problem. I have had my CZ for about a month, with around 500 rounds through it and not a single problem either. Talk about ergonomics! You have to at least hold one before you make your decision. I am very confident in the accuracy and reliability of either weapon.
Whatever you decide ~ have fun!

[Jim101]

Tom,

I have large hands also, now, are you talking about the compact XD? I was a Academy Sports today looking at the CZ P01, very nice.....

Jim

[matthewdanger]

My CZ P-01 is the absolute best 9mm I have ever owned or fired. It just works for me. It is just a hair outside the prices that were mentioned on this post. They are running a little closer to 500 bucks these days.

It is money well spent.

[rotty]

Myself, I would choose a used glock or a CZ

[Jim101]

Matt,

I saw the P01 at Academy Sports for $449 before tax. That gun does feel good..

Jim

[Tom]

Jim101,
No, I have the 4" barrel XD. I had them both to the range again today and I have to say I am really growing fonder of the CZ75 over the XD9. It is heavier, being all steel, but it shoots so naturally... I just shoot better with it.

[TODD 3465]

Get whatever feels comfortable to shoot.

I'm hearing good things about XD's but if SA Inc. ever decides to drop them I'll bet you can kiss parts and mags good bye.

[Jim101]

Tom,


Thanks for the information.....
Jim

[Trainman]

I was at a gun show this weekend and had the chance to pick up a CZ 2075 RAMI and I liked it. Really felt good in my hand.

Also looked at a "Baby" Desert Eagle. It was also a good fit. They have a 9 & 40mm versions in a semi-compact and compact sizes. One caveat - the website says they don't recommend the "+P" ammunition in the Baby Eagle. I don't know how much of a limitation that puts on it for you.

Both of these are definitely on MY list for future considerations.

[king_nothing]

Used Glocks are a dime a dozen, buy a 17 or 19.
just my onion.

[Gwhizzer]

Trying to convince a guy as to which pistol to buy is about the same as telling him which girl to marry. A waste of breath. Best advice is, "Try a few and see which one you like best".
Gwhizzer

[Niagarafallss1]

Trying to convince a guy as to which pistol to buy is about the same as telling him which girl to marry. A waste of breath. Best advice is, "Try a few and see which one you like best".
Gwhizzer


Yeap ! Ya gotta wrap your hands around her a few times and squeeze her a bit, then you'll know if it feels just right. ;)

[Gwhizzer]

Yeap ! Ya gotta wrap your hands around her a few times and squeeze her a bit, then you'll know if it feels just right. ;)


That's what I'm saying!!!
G

[Firearmz]

I would recommend a used SIG 228 first, then a HK USP Compact and then the Glock 19.

[Dennis Foote]

Ok.
I've seen the pics.
I've read the commentary.
Now comes the question.
How come HK won the DHS contract and Glock was dropped??

[Popeye]

The H&K is a better designed, safer firearm.

[Bobby]

Did I miss something?
Browning Hi Power,might run a little over 400 tho.

[PX15]

For years I've believed there was no better compact 9mm than my Sig P239. I've owned the Glock 26, KelTec P11, Taurus P92, Belgian High Power, S/W 3913, Walther P1, Star BM, Tokarev at one time or another, but the Sig P239 has always been the pick of the litter.

Recently I purchased a new Bersa Thunder "9" (compact) simply because I had read so many good things about the Bersa line of firearms, and I must say it has amazed me.

The Bersa has been an amazing little pistol. It only cost $305 +tax. It has a lifetime warranty, completely ambidextious, (I'm a lefty), great sights, 100% reliable, and very accurate. Right out of the box, a great firearm.

In 2006 Bersa is to start releasing for sale the 13rd magazines, and CAT of Argentina makes a model specific Bersa Cat Laser sight for it, at a reasonable price.

You get lots of derisive comments when someone mentions the Bersa, but very seldom from anyone who actually OWNS one. Bersa's image is a product of "cost reflects quality", and sometimes that is simply NOT the whole story. www.BersaTalk.com reflects the appreciation for and satisfaction with the Bersa/Firestorm line of quality firearms. www.GunBlast.com only has good things to say about the Bersa/Firestorms.

Go ahead and spend more money for whatever pistol strikes your fancy. But if you will, please sometime hold, and shoot, a Bersa, and you will be surprised at the performance of the pistols. Pay less - get more....

I am a very opinionated old fart, and if Bersa's were not worth the money I would be posting that fact all over the various forums on the internet. I too often get caught up in the firearm "brand" snobbery, but shooting my Bersa Thunder 9, compact has changed my thinkin'.

Just my OFO, dissenting opinions welcome.

Best Wishes.
JP

[dipodomys]

OK Jim no one has posted to this thread in almost six weeks. What is the story? Did you buy a new pistol? What did you get and why? I was following this thread with great interest.

[Niagarafallss1]

Did Jim buy a ****ing 9 finally or is this another one of his bs threads wasting our time??????

[Jim101]

NS1,

A man that wants to know..... I ended up buying a used S&W 6906 from friend for ~$300...Great gun. Came with a 10 & 12 round mag., had very little use..

Jim

[dipodomys]

And how does it shoot? Reliability, accuracy? You sound pleased with it anyway. Glad you found something you liked.

[Niagarafallss1]

It's about time ! Yeesh! Great pick! Ok, so now you gotta post pics :)

[Jim101]

Shoots great, will be my winter carry, very smooth gun to shoot....light, but wide...I'll post a pic. this weekend.. Now I am looking for a KT .32, maybe, well I think so....yes I am undecided..

Jim

[texasalien]

Good buy Jim101! That's my favorite way to acquire a handgun, from a private sale. :)

[Bubba]

Don't know if any of you saw any of these, but GT Distributors (and some others) had some Atlanta PD S&W 5903 trade ins. They went out the door at ~$260. Mine was that with 5 15 round mags. I was thinking about using it in IDPA SSP class. I've heard mixed reviews around the net on these guns. Mine was in really good shape and has a "decent" first pull at about 8-9 lbs. The second is a crisp 3 lbs. The second shot feels like a really nice 1911 trigger. So far, it has been very reliable and hasn't missed a lick. Accuracy has been better than I would have expected. 15-18 yard head shots with ease. This has turned out to be probably the best deal on a 9mm I have had.

Still not sure if I will shoot SSP with the 5903 as I am not comfortable with the difference between the 1st pull and the second. I am giving some consideration to a Para LDA double stack 9. Still a 1911 and the trigger is very nice; at least for a double action. :D It's one oz over the 2006 SSP weight limit of 39oz. I really need to see if I can get an oz out of it in some way without violating any SSP rules.

I did pick up 2 XDs for the twins. $410 each. I got a deal on consecutive serial numbers for them. They won't care now. But in 20 years, that will mean a lot to them. Did the same with the 22/44 Rugers. Trey shot his XD as a side arm in a recent carbine match and did very well with it. If he keeps his grades up this year, he is going to get a lot of range time with that XD. :up:

[demented]

For short term reliability, there are too many pistols that will do the job to mention them all. IF and this is a big IF, I was heading out for unknown amount of time, not knowing what I'd run into or whether I'd have opportunity to properly care for my pistol, there is only one choice-Glock. I've owned eight, all have been 100% reliable whether wet, dirty, dry or oiled. I've had stainless steel guns that rusted worse than the Tennifer finished Glocks. I'm not crazy about their looks or the way they fit my hand but they just plain work. A revolver will choke before a Glock, try getting a revolver full of dirt and see what I mean.

[PX15]

For short term reliability, there are too many pistols that will do the job to mention them all. IF and this is a big IF, I was heading out for unknown amount of time, not knowing what I'd run into or whether I'd have opportunity to properly care for my pistol, there is only one choice-Glock. I've owned eight, all have been 100% reliable whether wet, dirty, dry or oiled. I've had stainless steel guns that rusted worse than the Tennifer finished Glocks. I'm not crazy about their looks or the way they fit my hand but they just plain work. A revolver will choke before a Glock, try getting a revolver full of dirt and see what I mean.

Don't guess you happened to own the same Glock26 I had... The only semi-automatic pistol I've ever had 100% reliability from is my Sig P239. It so happened that I had the Glock and the Sig at the same time, and not only was the Sig more accurate, it never burped, not once. The Glock did, and shortly thereafter was sent to live elsewhere.

I have a couple of Colt Cobra's along with two J-frame Smiths' and over the years, they've yet to "choke". Of course I haven't tried them "full of dirt", but unless you are in the military on a battlefield someplace you shouldn't have a firearm full of dirt, or anything else.

The Glock people have done a wonderful job in selling the Glock pistols to law enforcement agencies all over the country. Low pricing, accepting trade-ins had a lot to do with it. I think Glocks are excellent pistols, and if I ever want to immerse a firearm in mud, etc. I'll pick me up one.

Oops, didn't mean for this post to come off confrontational. I've just had better luck with my Sig and snubbies than I did with my Glock.

Best Wishes,

JP :up:

[Bobby]

Becks glock came apart on her dry firing at home,simlpe fix but it did come apart as she posted on over at glocktalk.com,I like the glocks as well but not as much as some.
Still favor the BHP9mm ,and like most all the ones listed on here. Bobby

[Niagarafallss1]

I never thought I'd hear myself talk like the old timers, especially like my pain in the ass uncle that's a .45 freak and always made puking sounds when he saw my nines.........and since I've finally gotten another .45 and become re-acquainted with 1911's .....

JUST BE DONE WITH IT AND BUY A 1911 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[demented]

PX-15, no offense taken! I surely didn't mean to imply that all guns except Glocks are junk. I was averaging their total score as to reliability, rust resistance, combat accuracy, shootability....My Colts run 100% but will rust easier, Sigs are as reliable as mechanically possible but the blued models will rust if not well kept. Both will outshoot any Glock I've owned.

[Bubba]

It's kinda funny. I've see these "confrontations" about reliablilty of Glocks all over the net. Lots of keyboard commandos get all high and mighty on BOTH sides of the subject.

My perspective is a bit different because I am with a bunch of different shooters at least once a weekend... many times both Sat & Sun. I watch literally hundreds of different guns go by me as I take shooters through matches and training classes. And you know what? ALL of them fail. My 1911s fail at times. And so do Glocks and XDs and S&Ws and etc .... Honestly, the experience I see as THOUSANDS of rounds go down range, they all tend to fail at one point or another. Maybe it's because I don't see as many of them as I do the popular brands, but the Hi-Power is the only one that I rairly see have a problem. And the only firing line problem I have ever seen on a Hi-Power was with the 40 S&W and even THEN it was the front sight flying off. I've seen that happen 3 times. Mine included. But they still ran.

Bottom line, most of the top designs will be 99.9% reliable out of the box. When you go to tinkering with them is where you start seeing problems. I've seen more "home gunsmith" related problems than anything else.

My two biggest complaints about the Glock. Number one: Grip angle. The Glock just does not point natually for most people. I know I shoot mostly 1911. But if I have to shoot a Glock as a "found gun" in a match, all my COM aimed shots will wind up in the head. :( Number 2: It's very easy for beginning shooters to induce their own failures into the Glock operation. I can't tell you how many Glock malfunctions I have seen simply because the beginning shooter could not maintain a good grip and locked wrist. I watched a perfectly good Glock fail somewhere around 40 times while shooting 1000 rounds because the young man just simply could not maintain a proper grip. The gun mecanically was fine. It was just too difficult for him to maintain a good solid grip at the right angle to make the hits. Both of these problems can be overcome with training and practice. But you have to put in the time to do so. If you do, the Glock can be a very effective pistol for a lot of people.

If I had to grab something out of the box, never do anything more than keep it clean and lubed and KNOW that it would always run, the Hi-Power would be the one that I would expect to be the best of the bunch.

[Fug]

Yep, these debates are all over the net, and will be for awhile because every self proclaimed expert needs to add their 2 cents. So here is mine:

I have been carrying the same home-smithed 1911 daily for many years and as I have seen others change their carry many times over the years I have always stayed with the 1911 (moved up from a wheel gun 15 years ago).

- I have, drawn and fired in one motion to kill a dozen man+ sized critters with it, probably 100 smaller critters with it
- I have fallen into the salt waters of Puget Sound with it on (twice)
- slid down a mountain side with it taking the beating
- more times than you would beleive has it been frozen in snow and ice
- I clubbed somone over the head with it
- I have used it to save my life in a bad situation (twice)

My 1911 has always fired that one or two rounds in an emergency, it has never jammed, it conceals easily, with a .45 acp I could give a darn about ballistic testing of wether this or that 9mm may mor may not expand or penetrate under this or that situation. Yes it has jammed when going through hundreds/thousands of rounds at the range but fix it and without doubt you have a clean mag to shoot.

As calibers come and go, as carry designs come and go, and this and that material come and go, my 1911 and .45acp will stay on my side until I die naturally or they pry it from my cold dead hands (and the echos of me bitching that I should have brought a rifle fade away).

Almost 9:00 time to slap ion my 1911 and get on with the day ;)

[Hook]

Never cared too much for a glock. Maybe it's the way they look, or the weird trigger pull, or or the way they don't fit my hand, or the plastic reciever, or the occasional come-apartedness. But they do seem to shoot OK.(small wonder).
But there is something to consider. The Glock company does not recommend shooting handloads and they absolutely do not want you to use lead bullets.
Hmmm.....Most of my handgun practice is with handloads and lead bullets.

I guess, other than that they're allright.



Hook :D