[John Henry]

From a buddy that's been doing some restoration ;

"My Argentine Mauser is a 7mm 7.65 X 54. This Russian M1891/30 Mosin-Nagant I just finished up is also a 7mm HOWEVER it shoots 7.62 X 54R If I try to shoot Russian stuff in the Mauser or Mauser stuff in the Mosin........will I die?. My knowledge about ammo is obviously very limited. What is the primary difference between 7.65 X 54 and 7.62 X 54 and what is the "R" all about?"

[Rabbi]

JH,

The 7.62 and 7.65 are NOT interchangeable and the "R" stands for "rimmed" for the rim on the case.

Finnish ammo is marked 7.62x53 and that one IS interchangeable with 7.62x54.

If I'm not mistaken, that Mauser round takes a .318" diameter bullet. The Russian takes a .311" diameter bullet.

[gunnersfan]

Man am I behind. I thought a Mauser was a German machinegun from WWII.

[Rabbi]

A "Mauser" is a bolt action rifle style, copied in many countries around the world from Siam to Argentina. There are probably more surplus Mauser action rifles in the world than any other rifle except maybe AK-47s.

Our own American rifles from WWI used some Mauser design elements such as the bolt release for one. I know very little about them but there are people in this forum who know a LOT (as in experts).

Now a MOUSER on the other hand is a hairy little carnivore that crawls up in your lap and purrs, when it's not tearing up the furniture. Some of them come from Siam, too.

[Wayne the Shrink]

Peter and Paul Mauser designed the first practical bolt action gun and didn't quit. the '91, '93, and '98 Mauser designs were used as battle rifles around the world from the 1890's until the 1950's. It was Germany's battle rifle through out WWII. Our Springfield is a copy of the Mauser, so much so that we paid Mauser to build it. Yes, Mauser designed and made machine guns, too, but they were known for their rifles.

[gunnersfan]

Rabbi, how are ya' ? Thanks again. Another lesson givin' by you, absorbed by me. I don't own any longguns and have'nt shot one since the Mil. so alot is new to me, and most is informative and interesting.

[BrockthePaine]

Pretty much every major military surplus or civilian bolt-action rifle was based on the German Mauser. Mauser also manufactured the 8mm Mauser pistol (the Broomhandle Mauser) and a few semiautomatic designs - if I recall correctly, they made probably the worst semiauto rifle of WWII, the G41(M). After WWII the company was broken up, and H&K was started with the last remnants of the Mauser Works. I think Mauser's still around, they just don't do much gun mfg anymore.

[gunnersfan]

BrockthePaine, and thanks to you. Keep talking, I listen, really!

[John Henry]

Thank lil' bro ..... 'preciate the help.
Long guns are not my long suite .

[papa g]

Now a MOUSER on the other hand is a hairy little carnivore that crawls up in your lap and purrs, when it's not tearing up the furniture. Some of them come .


i got a Collie/?? mix young dog, she is an excellent "mouser" i love watching her stalk then dispatch mice :D

[dipodomys]

Rabbi, Ya need to watch those 7.62x53R and 6.62x54R rounds too. The Finns used Russian actions but they rebarreled and rechambered their rifles to different specs. They'll chamber and they'll fire but they aren't always safe with the other guys ammo. Mostly the Finns used a tighter spec and a slightly smaller bore, so Russian ammo in finnish MNs are the most likely source of trouble. Other countries who made MNs such as Romania, Poland, Hungary, China, did them to Russian specs. There is about as much difference in their chambering as there is between .223 and 5.56MM chambers. It's more a theoretical than practical problem. The Finns did ruin a few rifles during the Winter War, supposedly by firing Russian ammo, but when you're doing 40 to 1 odds anyway, who's going to do research on a ruined rifle.

[Rabbi]

Thanks for that info Sir. I don't fire any Finnish mil-surp in my Mosin, but I buy virgin Lapua brass for handloading and the case is marked 7.62x53. I don't shoot much milsurp at all.

[dipodomys]

John Henry, According to military cartridges of the world shoulder diameter of the Russian round is .394 as opposed to .429 for the Arg. It's kind of like stepping off into a manhole. Rim diameter for the Russian is .445 and it's .470 for the Arg. That should be enough difference to drop right into the chamber, and since the Russ round headspaces on the rim it probably wouldn't fire. If it did fire the russ round in the Arg chamber would have so much room that it could split the case, blow the head off the case, or any of those minor problems that people used to have in the early days of smokless powder. Not a good idea. YES JH You could even die. No we don't want that. I look forward to your posts and would like to keep you around.