[Gusgus]

Folks, as I've been reading the "cops" threads by WyldOne. I realize that many on these boards are LEO or former LEO, so please don't take offense, but I find myself agreeing with much that she says. All the LEOs I've met on these and other boards have been great, caring folk, who support and defend the right of citizens to protect life & limb. So, after meeting all these great folk, why do I still view LEOs as my adversary? Why is it that I mistrust and fear them?

LEOs are regular folk that are recruited out of the citizenry. Therefore, much of their mind set is the same as the people they serve. If the citizens of an area are predominately anti self defense, than most of the LEOs in that area will feel the same way. Administrators (Captains, Chiefs, etc.) are normally political appointees, so if the elected politicians of an area are anti self defense, more than likely, so will those who make law enforcement policy.

WyldOne and I both live in areas where LEOs (administrators AND beat cops), are predominately anti self defense. They don't want armed citizens, and will do everything in their power to discourage firearm ownership. Many will even violate the law, in order to delay or deny purchase permits. They truly believe that it is in the public's good, to disarm the law abiding. This is why WyldOne is under the impression that LEOs don't want citizens to be armed. Because where she lives THEY DON'T!!!!

Those of you in the South and "flyover" country may have a very hard time understanding this, but as a firearm enthusiast, I fear my State Police far more than I fear criminals. Even my local, previous "gun friendly" department is starting to turn. The detective that issues the purchase permits, and the Chief who signs them, are still somewhat courteous to gun owners. But, from the looks I get from most of the rank and file, I am assured that my position in the community is somewhere below that of a drug dealer. Best to be locked up, or shot down in a raid.

The local range I'm a member of is used by several departments for qualification and practice. We, citizen gun owners, are treated by many of these LEOs as dirt. By their body language, rudeness, and pompous attitude, they leave no doubt that in their eyes, we, the armed citizens are the enemy. Many of them violate every gun safety law, and can't hit the broad side of a barn, but I, who religiously practice gun safety, and can hit my target, is a danger to society just because I don't wear a badge.

So here's the short of it. When you get into these discussions with WyldOne, remember that it's hard to understand where she's coming from, until you've lived here. Not only are we in the North East not on the same page with you other folks, we're not even in the same country.

[Gunslinger]

Gusgus, I see your point and agree that the officers in the NE are not the same, or as gun/citizen friendly, as they are in other parts of the country.
But the problems in the NE go far beyond just your police officers. The problem is not the officers, as you said police officer are drawn from your local inhabitants and are a microcosm of the local populace. The problem is there are too damn many liberals clumped together in one place there. ;)

[WyldOne]

i guess my conception/possible misconception was because i thought it's illegal to carry a gun on you. i was gonna ask all the questions about legalities, carrying it, etc....but then i decided not to get one...so i stopped worrying about it.

as far as i know, though, it is illegal for regular citizens to carry a gun on their person as they walk down the street. and, since it's the cops' jobs to enforce the law, they are in the right to arrest/ticket you. so in my eyes it seems like gun owners vs. cops would be a pretty natural area of tension...

did that make any sense?

[Col. Mustard]

Originally posted by WyldOne:
<STRONG>i guess my conception/possible misconception was because i thought it's illegal to carry a gun on you. i was gonna ask all the questions about legalities, carrying it, etc....but then i decided not to get one...so i stopped worrying about it.

as far as i know, though, it is illegal for regular citizens to carry a gun on their person as they walk down the street. and, since it's the cops' jobs to enforce the law, they are in the right to arrest/ticket you. so in my eyes it seems like gun owners vs. cops would be a pretty natural area of tension...

did that make any sense?</STRONG>

I've kinda lost track of MA laws on the subject (although I suspect you're right about carrying being illegal there), but most states offer some sort of concealed carry weapon law. Thirty-three (or is it 34, now?) require the state to issue a CCW permit to a qualified (nonfelon, clean mental health and drug histories) applicant. Several other (e.g., CT) allow the issuing authority (usually the local police or sheriff) to make a "judgement" on the "need" of the applicant to carry a gun. This is where local politics kicks in; In your part of the country, the threshold for need is likely to be absurdly high.

(Edit) Oh, yeah, I forgot; then there's your neighboring State to the Northwest; home of Socialist Representative Bernie Sanders and homosexual marriages, which allows concealed carry with no permit at all. Go figure.

[ 08-24-2001: Message edited by: Clueless in Charlotte ]

[Greg L]

(time to jump out of lurking mode for the moment :) )

In MA. a "regular citizen" can carry a weapon concealed out on the street. They have to have a carry permit and follow MA's rules but they can do it. Kids are fussing about something so I can't add more now.

Greg (legal for carry in 20 or states as of now)

[Sir Knight]

My experience has been that the more rural the area, the more LEO behave like Peace Officiers and the more populated the area, the more they behave like Storm Troopers. I'm not saying "ALL" because there are exceptions to the rules but in general this is what I have found. While living in NJ and on my way to a business meeting, I happened up a detour and a LEO directing traffic. Not being familar with the area and being concerned that the detour might cause me to miss the next turn in the directions, I pulled my car over to the side of the road and began to approach the LEO (while wear a tie and a three piece suit) hoping to ask for directions. The LEO began yelling at me to get back in my car and to leave the area or face arrest. So much for protecting & SERVING the community.

While I've been living in the Florida swamps only a couple of years and haven't had that much interaction with the local LEOs except for the times that I've called them with alligator problems, over all they seem to be more of a laid back bunch. Again, not ALL but in general.

So I have to agree with Gusgus's accessment. Now to address WyldOne's statement ... As was already pointed out, more than half of the states in the country issue Civilian Concealed Weapons permits. Depending on the state, there are limits to what you can and can not carry. Some states list the particular gun (with serial number) on the license that you can carry, other states do not make such restrictions.

Here in the state of Florida, it's called a CWL for "Concealed Weapons License" because I'm allowed to carry not only guns but also knives, chemical weapons, etc. as long as they are "hidden from ordinary site" and they can only become visible when my life or that of another is threatened or faced with SERIOUS harm. I can pretty much carry a weapon anywhere with the exception of government buildins & property, schools, etc.

[PreserveFreedom]

Gusgus -
If nobody else does, I know exactly where you are coming from. There are some people (especially on TFL) that see me as anti-cop. Why? Because I'll read a thread about a corrupt cop literally getting away with murder. I have lived in many places in this country and some of you know that I am adding another to my list of places lived in less than two months. I'll be 26 when I move and every one of my moves was my choice. Not one of them was a childhood move with parents or anything like that. My first (and most important) was out of Illinois. You all know their gun laws suck as bad as anywhere else, if not worse. I was in the Chicago area so I got to sniff Illinois' armpit every day. On top of the gun laws, I was tired of being escorted out of town if I decided to go for a walk after leaving a friend's house. I was tired of having state troopers stop me and write me multiple citations because I refused to line their pockets with cash. I was tired of the state always sticking it's hand out. Do I hate cops? Well, my father is a retired Sergeant from Western Springs, Illinois. My brother is an officer in Indian Head Park, Illinois. My best friend is a Sheriff's Deputy for Sierra County, New Mexico. I may talk about fighting back at times, but does anyone have the slightest idea of how I would feel if anything happened to any of those three men? They are the three most important males in my life. I would jump in front of a bullet for any one of them without thinking twice! So no, I don't hate cops. I just hate what some do. I hate the attitude that many have. Nobody is perfect. When he was on the force, my dad would never go to a public range. He didn't want to shoot with citizens. At the same time, he was a Marksman in the Illinois National Guard. He was also the best shot on the department. I used to go on ride a longs with him. I remember seeing a younger cop hand dad his Glock with the new laser sight on it asking my dad to take it to the range and sight it in because he knew how good of a shot he was (not to brag, but it is in my blood at times too ;)). At the same time, this is a guy that wouldn't stop a car unless it was doing at least 15 over. That's a lot of leeway in a 35MPH zone. However, as much as it would hurt me to see these men hurt, if I found out that they got shot while doing a no knock raid on the wrong house, I would have such mixed feelings. I would have the obvious hurt. I would also have the resentment of why someone close to me went "bad". Well, I have rambled incoherently for long enough now. You now know more about my family/friends than many people I know in real life.

[jim]

WyldOne
On the issue of individuals carrying weapons. As stated, most states allow people to carry concealed wepons. Many states, such as Georgia, the license covers carrying concealed or out on the open. In a few states, anyone can carry a firearm openly, wear pistols, carry a rifle, whatever, with NO license. In those cases it is only necessary to get a license if you want to carry a concealed weapon. And in one Georgia city, the head of each household is required to have a gun unless a waver is issued.

Now stop and think for a moment. How many people are carrying firearms and no one is even aware of it. It's likely, particularly in the South, Midwest and parts of the North West, that there is at all times someone within sight of you who is armed.

But there are almost no shootouts. Despite what the media may say, the US has very little gun violence. But we do kill tens of thousands of people every year on the highways.

The public is afraid of guns violence in the schools. And over the last four years there have been a few incidents. And so we responded by spending money, hiring guards, putting up metal detectors. But nearly EVERY high school in the US had at least one student killed in a car accident. That's a bunch of folks, a real tragedy. And so we ran out and hired driving instructors and did lots of training and inspected all the cars and advised the parents on what would be a safe car as opposed to a killer. Nope. Did nothing of the sort.

I'm sorry, but gun violence just is not the threat in the US today. Instead of talking about guns, let's talk about real threats. let's talk about the druggist who watered down patients chemotherapy doses so that he could make more money. Let's talk about drivers ed. that's where our kids get killed. Let's talk about raising local taxes with the increase going into the police department so that they can hire more folks and do more training. Let's talk about something important.

[kamakaze]

Hmm.. now I gotta question.

JIM,
I know what my "rights" :rolleyes: my GA CCW entitles me to, but I'm willing to bet that it says nothing (in the letter of the law that I have read) about open carry. What do YOU know and where can I read it?

Also, I have to share WyldOne's passion for her "fight the power" :D attitude. I have very many reservations with officers. I used to know a lot of officers, as they were friends dads while growing up in HS. But old towns get bigger and so do their forces -- and it kinda looses that old, home-town feel. I never really opened my eyes to some of the displeaures that some police departments possess until I moved to the Atlanta area. There are NUMEROUS areas in Atlanta where you can find yourself in a staged speed trap I am for REAL here with bogus construction zones swarming with 37 police cars and **** like that. Officers give you a smart-ass attitude straight up before askin' for your license. I've been stopped JUST to be stopped. I've seen officers break more traffic laws around the permiter than I've seen laws enforced. I've been illegally searched with police dogs at arranged traffic stops. Don't believe your 4th amendment right was violated when that dog sniffed yer car? Challenge my arguement. And my list of whining could go on and on. Deep in my heart, I know there are guys out there trying to make a difference. I know, I've met some of them. Some of them in public, some on forums such as this, and some because they're great friends. But as the only way I've allowed myself to see it, that the majority of police are just the middlemen between a shoddy government and terrible laws. May those with good hearts and good intentions forgive me for my spite.

I'm with Gusgus on this one.

[WyldOne]

Originally posted by jim:
<STRONG>I'm sorry, but gun violence just is not the threat in the US today. Instead of talking about guns, let's talk about real threats. </STRONG>

jim
gun violence IS a serious threat where i live.

unless you care to move to the poor boston neighborhoods and prove me otherwise?

[Aragon]

Well you slamming the North East but if it wasn't for NY, NJ, & MA screwing it up the NE would be GREAT. I live in NH and it is the "Live Free or Die" state and that is how they keep it. The are ALL for persons protecting themselves. They are a SHALL ISSUE State meaning that you pass the background check they SHALL issue you one. That way REGARDLESS of the your Chiefs personal opinion on citizens owning firearms, he HAS to! This state is all for individuals rights of self preservation.

VT still has it as a persons RIGHT to carry a firearm for protection. YES A RIGHT. There is no permit or background check. Anyone can BUT you commit a crime you lose that right. VT has some of the lowest crime rates in the country.

I have also found that the LEO's are ALL for citizens protecting themselves. They know that 99% of the time they are historians for the facts and it is up to the individuals to protect themselves.

[Bubba]

I understand what you are saying Lupey. But remember, anything north of 128 IS rural. :D I remember a distinct difference in attitudes of LEO and the general population the further north you get from 128. I enjoyed meeting most of the folks in NH VT and Maine. Almost everyone south of there were some of the rudest people I ever ran across. Exceptions are everywhere. Brookline, Waltham, Burlington and others had some nice folks. The girls from Billerica were hysterical. I don't want to EVER hear anyone from Boston make fun of the "big hair" in Texas. I never saw so many big hair peaks in my LIFE as I did in Billerica. :D Come on... Lupey.. WyldOne... you KNOW I am right on that. lol And there were jerks up in Nashua as well. But there really is a rural attitude difference as you get further north. And a big city attitude in Boston. I can totaly understand why Gun Violence is a big issue inside inner Boston. I have seen those areas. So I know WyldOne is not making any of that up. It is a real everyday problem there.

But also know, that MA has some of the toughest firearms laws in the country. I was a criminal by driving 4 miles from my house. You see, if I had my pistol in my truck in NH there was no problem. Yet if I went to Pheasant Lane mall, and drove on the south side of the parking lot, I crossed over into MA. And I just transported a firearm into MA. Having a firearm in a vehicle in MA is against the law. Thus instaint criminal. :( Yet even with very strengent firearms laws in MA, gun grime is still a significant problem. Doesn't appear the gun laws are solving any problems there. But that is a whole different subject from the one we are discussing.

What we are discussing is the attitude of LEO. And in that... that they are drawn from the population at large. And we are beginning to confirm this concept... if the people in an area are intollerant of others... many of the LEOs drawn from that populous are also intollerant. Lupey, you are seeing northern NE as being more open and courtious as opposed to the attitudes in MA, NY and NJ.

I saw the same things when I lived there.

And I see it here in Texas as well. The attitudes of large parts of Austin are VERY different from those in places like Rockdale, Buda and Dripping Springs. (But I choose to believe that is because so many Yankees and nuts from Kalifornia have moved into Austin.... :p)

[ 08-25-2001: Message edited by: Bubba ]

[kamakaze]

Originally posted by WyldOne:
<STRONG>
jim
gun violence IS a serious threat where i live.
</STRONG>

Sweetheart, gun violence is a threat where you live because only criminals are allowed to have guns. And just to cover all the bases on the arguement, by definition, criminals do not follow the law. Therefore, the law that states that you can not own such-and-such a firearm in this area is not applicable to the criminal that does not give a rat's ass about the law. Therefore, yes, gun violence would be considered a threat where you live.

[WyldOne]

Originally posted by kamakaze:
<STRONG>

Sweetheart, gun violence is a threat where you live because only criminals are allowed to have guns. And just to cover all the bases on the arguement, by definition, criminals do not follow the law. Therefore, the law that states that you can not own such-and-such a firearm in this area is not applicable to the criminal that does not give a rat's ass about the law. Therefore, yes, gun violence would be considered a threat where you live.</STRONG>

or maybe, possibly, it's a problem because of the nature of poverty.

or, maybe it's a problem because of denial ("gun violence isn't a threat"....)

or maybe, just maybe, it's a problem for a whole helluva lot of reasons.

i can't write very much right now. last night i watched some tv show about gang violence and it made me remember. when i was 12 years old, my childhood friend was shot and killed in a gang-related drive by shooting. yes, he was involved in gangs. there were at least two cop cars in his driveway every single night. but his brother was the sweetest guy i'd ever met. this was in cleveland heights, ohio. (the "bad" suburb of cleveland). and last night i had a very bizarre dream about him.

so you can argue about rural vs. urban. you can argue about the pros and cons of gun control. you can argue about the causes of violence.

but please. DO NOT tell me that gun violence is not a serious threat. don't go there.

[ 08-25-2001: Message edited by: WyldOne ]

[WyldOne]

Originally posted by Bubba:
<STRONG>But also know, that MA has some of the toughest firearms laws in the country. I was a criminal by driving 4 miles from my house. You see, if I had my pistol in my truck in NH there was no problem. Yet if I went to Pheasant Lane mall, and drove on the south side of the parking lot, I crossed over into MA. And I just transported a firearm into MA. Having a firearm in a vehicle in MA is against the law. </STRONG>

ohhh okay i think this might have been what i was thinking of way up ^ there.

as far as the rural parts of new england, i really have no clue at all. the only time i've been up there is when i was on my way to quebec city last april, we stopped for something to eat at a church in vermont (it was one of the welcoming centers for people crossing from the united states to canada for the big protest). and actually we crossed the border in vermont too. i forgot the name off the top of my head, but i have it written down about a million times. if i hear it i'll probably remember

[John Henry]

LEO's are, first, last, and foremost, just people. Just as with any other group there are "good" ones and "bad" ones .... and every thing in between. Yet, some of us expect them to be "God like" .... to be where you want them (and when), to never make a mistake, and to always see every thing our way .... it must be nice.

The vast majority of those I have met are in favor of armed citizens. At least those that spend any amount of time on the street.

I think I've told this story before, but it seems to fit here.
A couple of years ago I was "teamed" with the local sheriff in a Sunday morning pistol match (I was working out of state at the time) and I remarked on the fact that he, and several of his deputies, were out shooting competition with the "average people". I ask him, point blank (no pun intended) why he was so supportive of CCW? His reply, I believe, will stay with me for a long time.
He came to a complete stop, turned to face me directly, and said, "Because, some dark night, on a back road, YOU may be the only backup I've got".

[USP45usp]

wyldone: Who the heck are you? With all the spinning you do, it's a wonder you aren't dizzy:

or maybe, possibly, it's a problem because of the nature of poverty.

or, maybe it's a problem because of denial ("gun violence isn't a threat"....)

or maybe, just maybe, it's a problem for a whole helluva lot of reasons.

i can't write very much right now. last night i watched some tv show about gang violence and it made me remember. when i was 12 years old, my childhood friend was shot and killed in a gang-related drive by shooting. yes, he was involved in gangs. there were at least two cop cars in his driveway every single night. but his brother was the sweetest guy i'd ever met. this was in cleveland heights, ohio. (the "bad" suburb of cleveland). and last night i had a very bizarre dream about him.

so you can argue about rural vs. urban. you can argue about the pros and cons of gun control. you can argue about the causes of violence.

but please. DO NOT tell me that gun violence is not a serious threat. don't go there.

You've done more 180's then anyone I've ever seen. Gun violence is not the problem.. just maybe it's just the criminals. Sorry to hear that you were raised and live on the "bad side of town" but unless you're taking government/state money to supplement your housing, maybe you should try to move on to better neighborhoods and housing.

USP45usp

[WyldOne]

Originally posted by USP45usp:
<STRONG>wyldone: Who the heck are you? </STRONG>

huh? who do you think i am?

i'm just some young white woman who recently had her car broken into, and was bitchslapped (sorry, but it's the only word that fits here) by reality. i thought about getting a gun, came here, talked with you all, and decided against it.

why? who are YOU?

and yes. i'm confused. in the past year, i have gone from being steadfastly PRO gun control, to on the fence 50/50, to sorta leaning toward ANTI gun control.

gun violence isn't the problem; violence is. yes, a lot of that violence DOES INVOLVE GUNS!!! i seriously cannot believe you are trying to deny what i am experiencing. JUST LAST NIGHT, there were THREE shootings. 2 in dorchester, one in roxbury; ALL OF THEM occurred very close to where i live.

sorry i don't have a pickup truck and a farm, but just because gun violence is not a problem WHERE YOU LIVE doesn't mean it's not a problem at all.

geez.


and FYI: funny thing about poor neighborhoods, poor people tend to live there. so unless you're planning on sending me enough money to get the heck outta here, i'm stuck here. (because i simply can't afford to live elsewhere). and you might want to check out boston apartment rates, they're sky-high, competing with new york city.

[WyldOne]

Police seeking gunmen in three shootings at Boston festival (http://www.boston.com/dailynews/238/region/Police_seeking_gunmen_in_three:.shtml)

my apartment is across the street from Franklin Park, where the festival was taking place.

i can find more cheerful news articles if i need to. but honestly, i shouldn't have to go to such lengths to prove to you that gun violence is a problem in boston.

[ 08-26-2001: Message edited by: WyldOne ]

[Sandman]

WyldOne, I know what you mean when you say you can't afford to live elsewhere. I live in an area where there are 2 to 3 shootings a week. But the rent elsewhere in town prohibits my moving to a safer neighborhood. I have chosen to carry a gun for defense. (I have a CCW permit) The LEO's here are a mixed bag. Some are good people. Most are middle of the road. A few are jacka$$es. They are the ones I worry about. :eek:

[jimfox]

I can't speak to the attitude (toward armed citizens or otherwise) of police in the Northeast. Those I have known personally, locally here in E. Texas, and in Arizona and Alaska have been generally supportive of the right of other law abiding citizens to bear arms (these are mostly the rank and file type officers).

Based on my personal experience, I have observed that there is a decided improvement in the general attitude and professionalism of police officers with whom I have come in contact with, the further west I've gone - and the further north. (I can't speak for places like San Francisco, L.A., Seattle, or most other very large western cities.)

When I was growing up in Louisiana it was accepted as "common knowledge" that some Sheriff departments kept a "Beater" deputy on the payroll. I don't know that that was always true, but I have personally seen the results of the "attention" that a couple of these had given to some pretty innocuous examples of "threats to public safety and morality". I don't know that those "examples" led me to be more law abiding - but they certainly motivated me to stay out of jail.

As an adult I have spent a large part of my professional life working with police officers - city, reservation and state. This has been in the west and far north. With rare (very rare) exceptions I can't speak highly enough of them.

On a personal basis, I've received citations for four moving violations. Two in Louisiana when I was younger. Both of those were given because the policeman (one a Baton Rouge PD and the other a Troop E State Policeman) didn't like either the vehicle I was driving or the age I was (or both). I was not guilty of either cited offense, but when you are young and poor your options are limited. When I objected to both tickets the attitude was "Boy!, Are you saying I'm wrong!?" (Yes, I'm Caucasian.)

The other two (both speeding) were earned. One in Arizona - given by the Highway Patrol, and the other in Alaska (Fairbanks PD). In both cases the officers were professional in their approach and I have absolutely no complaints about either their attitude or conduct (or the ticket).

Just my observations and comments. YMMV (and, I hope for the better).

How-some-ever, it'll be a cold day in Hell when I fork over any money for an FOP benefit in Louisiana, although over the years I've dropped a lot of bucks for similar activities in areas to the west and north. I expect most officers in Louisiana are fine folks, but, as a part of my birthright as a Southerner, I don't forget - and rarely forgive.

[Aragon]

WyldOne looks like you need to move. I don't want to hear that you cant. If you want to you will! I lived somewhere I HATED. It took me a little over a year but I did. I moved a wife and 4 children 2000 miles with no help but I did it. So if I can than you can!

[USP45usp]

Maybe wyldone, you deserve a "sorry" but I'm not the one to give it. You are not the only person to have lived in bad places. You haven't had the pleasure of having an entire nation, country, whatever you wish to call it, after your blood.

You haven't had to live in tents, you haven't had to live with chemical masks, clothes hotter then heck in 120+ degrees, or with "haz pay" cause you may be an example to whatever god please the population at the time.

Please don't with go with victemhood. You are not a victem, you are a human being. Your life is in your control. You aren't airlifted to counties you don't wish to visit against your will and then devoided of the use of any arms until they are issued to you.

Make up your mind. You've gotten the best of advise from those here, yet you still don't "see". You make some decent comments yet you take them back on another post.

I, maybe others, am not here to cater to your every whim, need, or crisis. You have to be an adult with this, make up your own mind, and do as what you see is right for you.

Maybe you can't move. I've lived, without family help or money help, for the last four years. I live in what one would call a "dump". I worked at being a Janitor for over 8months, saved my money for this dump, and bought my clothes at goodwill.

I now make more then most here, but way less then others. Have I bitched, yes alittle. Have I complained, yes, much. But instead of embracing victemhood (you know, it's the blacks that have oppressed me, I'm only a white man) I have climbed my way back up. Yes, I'm not at the top yet, but my eye is one the top rung.

Wyldone, I don't wish to make enemies of you, but you seem to have your mind made up. Speak the truth, live the truth, and it shall set you free. You are only a victem, live on the bad side of town, due to you. And in your own words, "don't go there", I too have lived as the slim lives upon the bottom of the barrel, yet I don't use it as an excuse.

You can be one of the true Americans, or you can be one of them. Make up your mind and decide what you wish. It all depends on you my dear lady, all on you.

UPS45usp

*To the admins, if this is not appropriate, then please delete, it really matters not to me.

[WyldOne]

Originally posted by Lupey:
<STRONG>WyldOne looks like you need to move. I don't want to hear that you cant. If you want to you will! I lived somewhere I HATED. It took me a little over a year but I did. I moved a wife and 4 children 2000 miles with no help but I did it. So if I can than you can!</STRONG>

listen i make $22,000/year. on top of paying back my student loan, plus paying back my loan on my car (heh same rate as the other car was, go figure) plus paying car insurance (inexperienced driver + young + living in jamaica plain = :eek: ), plus two credit card bills that are maxed out, plus phone/long distance/electricity/gas (the usual ones), plus heating (we have $1000 left to go on our heating bill), PLUS $500 for rent...i run out of money way before the end of the month. and i have roughly $1000 in the bank right now.

yet you expect me to pay $800-$1500 to live elsewhere? LOL shall i send you my address in an email, so you can start making donations?

i didn't think so. poor people are poor for a reason: they just DON'T have money. geez.

[WyldOne]

Originally posted by USP45usp:
<STRONG>You are not the only person to have lived in bad places. </STRONG>

nope i know i'm not.



<STRONG>Please don't with go with victemhood. You are not a victem, you are a human being. </STRONG>

yes i'm aware of this. and gun violence IS indeed a problem. that was the point i was attempting (although apparently not very well) to make.


<STRONG>Make up your mind. You've gotten the best of advise from those here, yet you still don't "see". You make some decent comments yet you take them back on another post.</STRONG>

well maybe you have all the answers, but i don't. i'm confused about a lot of things, and i will not pretend otherwise.

look i'm not trying to play the victim game here. but someone, jim i believe, said that "gun violence is not a threat". when indeed, it IS. it is a serious problem. and i thought the example i gave was a good one. apparently you didn't. fine, whatever.

talk about living the truth.

[ 08-26-2001: Message edited by: WyldOne ]

[WyldOne]

Originally posted by Sandman:
<STRONG>WyldOne, I know what you mean when you say you can't afford to live elsewhere. I live in an area where there are 2 to 3 shootings a week. But the rent elsewhere in town prohibits my moving to a safer neighborhood. </STRONG>

ahhh thank you :) this is exactly what i was trying to say.

[Aragon]

I was making 8 damn dollars an hour with a wife and 4 children. Still found a way to get out of what I hated. Still did it. Myself and my wife did it. So I don't want to hear about I have to pay this and pay that. You don't like it DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. You can move 2 hours north up to manchester, NH and pay $400 a month rent. Have a nice play to live and not worry about shootings or living in fear.

[USP45usp]

You, my dear lady, make as much as I, yet I'm not one to complain. I too have credit card bills, plus a house payment, plus additions that must by added to call this place, habitable.

Yet, I know you not, nor do I wish too. I've met people, no matter the level that they've sunk too, raise up and become something. Moved, took the chance, and survived the decision.

You, I think that you are happy in the life you live. You will not move, or even attempt to do so, yet it decreases from your daily rant. You may not know what you wish to do "when you grow up", as I haven't done, but in the meantime, maybe you should at least strive for some goal.

My dear lady, please sit back and do as I've done. Break out that note pad, grab a pencil, for a pen won't work, and make two columns. One down one side, another down the other. List what you wish and then go for those goals. On the other, list what bothers you, what is hindering you, and then make solutions to those problems.

I enjoy everyone and everything that has graced my life in these last four years. You don't know what the real world is like until you've met it face to face. Taken the chances and "rolled with the flow" of the area that you are in.

Life is wierd, and you can't understand a bit of it until everything is turned upside down.

Like you, I too have met with failure and have thought of many things. Like you, I blamed everything on the area that I lived and wallowed in my victemhood.

Unlike you, I am now fighting to gain the upper hand. Unlike you, I will do what is right for me and I will listen to those who I see as friends and will listen to their advise. I may not take it, but I will not bitch because they have given it.

I ask you to email MsMTN.. maybe I am wrong in this but she has helped me to no end.

You can do it, you can be a great asset, but you need to really tell us what you what. You are intelligent, but emotional. Your posts really lite up the area, but your replies to your own dampen them just a bit.

My Fair Lady, please, just tell us, straight out, what is going on and please allow us to offer advise.

USP45usp

[WyldOne]

Originally posted by USP45usp:
<STRONG>My Fair Lady, please, just tell us, straight out, what is going on and please allow us to offer advise. </STRONG>

nah. i've already "wallowed in my victimhood" enough on this bb.

sorry to bother you, apparently i don't have the strength of character that you do.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Lupey
You can move 2 hours north up to manchester, NH and pay $400 a month rent. Have a nice play to live and not worry about shootings or living in fear.
2 hours is a long commute. With bills enough to pay, you now suggest a larger gas bill or public transportation. (Just the place to get mugged!) IMHO it would not be worth the time or expense. NTM I personally couldn't afford to move. I am so broke and in debt I have problems paying attention! :eek: :eek:

[stu]

Originally posted by WyldOne:
<STRONG>

nah. i've already "wallowed in my victimhood" enough on this bb.

sorry to bother you, apparently i don't have the strength of character that you do.</STRONG>I tend to agree.

[Turtlenapper]

Wylone, Look get off this victim thing your car was broken
into and you were not hurt and no one died this happens all
day long and everyday.
As for as you being poor get a job and grow up.
Nobody promises you a rose garden.
If you don't like where you live then move.

If you want to learn about guns then fine, this is a good place,
but if you are going to whine get a Doctor.

[Frenchy]

"sorry to bother you, apparently i don't have the strength of character that you do."

Come on girl, you know better that that by now. We're your friends here, and you know it.

[Sandman]

I second what Frenchy said!

[Blueyedog]

Friends will tell you what you need to hear ... NOT always what you want to hear. :)

[BadMedicine]

Credit cards suck, but know what? I will never live on the bottom rung. Education will give you al lyou need. spend your spare time learning laws and about government, if your debt is to high walk the walk.... I would, I'd declare bankruptcy and let the bank eat my beater-up care and my loan, to hell with them.

Gone are morals, and values. Nobody cares about anybody else and if you wanna make it you need to adapt. I'll do anything for my family, and I'll help my friends, I'd even maybe go a little way outta my way to help a stranger, but I'm not gonna s****e out a living risking my life day in and day out for some debt I owe a billion dollar bank or credit company that knewthey were screwing me from day one...not a chance. I'm not afraid. I'll give them the key to my car and the key to my appt and say "take it &$%^@, it's your's ;)"

The govt has so many programs to help people in need, they'll give you houses and they'll give you food and they'll give you money and college...last year I only made a few thousand at a part time pizza job, the govt took OVER 40% FOR FRIGGEN TAXES!!! But I got them real good now, uncle sam is sending me to college. I got a grant for $8500. free, no interest, no paying it back...just free schooling and a free degree....I hate to say it, but that's how our bleeding heart left winbg crying whiny-arse govt has become. but if they're gonna take the money from me, and give it to some lazy-arse moron who wont get off their butt and work, then i'll play the unfortunate one and take my money back....I'm going to college, and I'm gonna laugh all the way there and back...everyday :)

Please don't come here and say this is too much, or that is too much. because we can always fold. You're not playing hte WHOLE poker game at once, you're playing a hand, and if this one is sucky, fold and try the next, start at the bottom and play again, eventually you can win, you will make money, you gotta be determined and want it.

while I'm on the subject, if you're in fear for your life, get a gun. poor people deserve protection too, and your life is worth just as much and more than the drug-dealer/junkie/gangster who would try to take it.

[Gusgus]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down everyone! The purpose of this thread was to explain to those is the South and Rural areas, why many in the North East distrust police. That the friendly officer or deputy that you wave to on the way to work, does not think the same way, or react the same, as the elitist North East Storm Trooper that some of us deal with everyday.

I didn't expect it to turn into a pity party. You want to hear my troubles? Man, you DON'T want to hear MY troubles. I can out pity the best of you.

So, let's get this thread back on track or I'll lock it down. We can all have a pity party over in Hob Nobbing if you wish.

[Gusgus]

Originally posted by John Henry:
<STRONG>I ask him, point blank (no pun intended) why he was so supportive of CCW? His reply, I believe, will stay with me for a long time. He came to a complete stop, turned to face me directly, and said, "Because, some dark night, on a back road, YOU may be the only backup I've got".</STRONG>

That may work where you live, but in my neighbor, if I went armed to the aid of a downed officer, as soon as his backup arrived, I'd be:

1) Shot on sight.
2) Arrested and charged with firearms violations.
3) Sued by the criminal or family of the criminal I was defending the officer from.

Believe me, around here, armed citizens are considered more of a threat than armed criminals. Armed criminals justify the police's use of storm trooper tactics where armed citizens threaten their monopoly of power over, and control of, the masses.

I'll never forget the comment made last year by a local detective who is the head of the Camden County FOP.
"We can't allow CIVILIANS to carry concealed firearms, as officers shouldn't have to worry about being gunned down in the streets during a routine traffic stop!"

Pretty much says it all.

[Aragon]

Well I am glad to say that so far my dealings with officers that don't want the citizens to carry firearms has been far and few between. A majority of them understand the NEED to have it. All my local officers are on the citizens side when it comes to bearing arms. They all know and understand that it is not us that are a threat to them. Matter of fact I think there has only been one that has ever stated to me that he believes that we shouldn't be able to. I think he was playing "devils advocate" though as he likes to get into debates :)

Then again I am in New Hampshire and it is a completely different ballgame then the lower of the New England states. Almost like a different country all together. Don't think in Mass (leaves a bad taste in my mouth just saying it) you can walk out your back door for 5 mins and start letting the AK rip :D

[WyldOne]

Originally posted by USP45usp:
<STRONG>wyldone: Who the heck are you? With all the spinning you do, it's a wonder you aren't dizzy:</STRONG>

Originally posted by Lupey:
<STRONG>WyldOne looks like you need to move. I don't want to hear that you cant. </STRONG>

okay. i was trying to answer your questions. i have not been trying to play the victim. but if that's what you want to see, FINE. just don't ask me anymore questions, because i probably won't answer them anymore. you don't want to be my friends, you want to attack/criticize me. and quite frankly, i don't need that.

[Frenchy]

Originally posted by WyldOne:
<STRONG>

okay. i was trying to answer your questions. i have not been trying to play the victim. but if that's what you want to see, FINE. just don't ask me anymore questions, because i probably won't answer them anymore. you don't want to be my friends, you want to attack/criticize me. and quite frankly, i don't need that.</STRONG>

A forum is designed for statements and feedback. No harm or insult was intended here.

[Aragon]

WyldOne

I'm not trying to insult you. If you don't like it where you live then you CAN (said with encouragement) move. It is that plain and simple. If I can do it making $8/hr, a handicapped wife, 4 kids, 2 dogs and 2 cats then you can also. Yeah you might have to give up some of your possessions, start a new life and IT WILL BE SCAREY but you can do it. It may mean you have to commute 2 hrs one way until you find a new job but in the end it will be worth it.

4 years ago I was absolutely miserable. I hated where I was at, hated that my kids had to go to a school that gave a sub-par educations. Hated the life style and hated my house. I made a pledge to myself, my wife, and my children that we would not be there in a year. I shaved corners, I scrimped and saved. I went hungry so my food bill was low but yet my children wouldn't be hungry. I got rid of my long distance calling. I got rid of everything that cost me money that I ABSOLUTELY couldn't live without.
We went to the local pawn shop and sold everything that we didn't need. My guns, stereo, TV, and everything else that we could get ANY money for. That very night we packed what we had left and drove off into the night. I was scared out of my mind!

Well 4 years later my kids are getting great educations, My wife is driving a new blazer, I have the wrangler I always wanted. We have a beautiful place on a private lake, we have a vacation condo on a very popular ski resort. I have an excellent job and my family is the HAPPIEST it has ever been.

my only point was if I can do it than you can do it! YOU CAN change your environment (those are words of encouragement not words to condemn)

Now like I said before, it may be scary and intimidating but everyone here is pulling for you. Everyone here will offer what ever type of help they can provide. Me included.

[Grayfox]

WyldOne,
If you learn nothing else, learn this.
One is only a victim if they choose to be. Once you decide not to be a victim, everything changes. The choice is yours and yours alone.

[WyldOne]

okay. yes. thank you all very much.

once again, however, i was MERELY attempting to answer questions that were posed *to* me *by* FFF members.

but okay, duly noted.

[Nes]

After reading this thread I am glad that I live where I do. The largest town in the county where I plan to retire is around two thousand. I see questions on tv like this. Do you know which of your neighbors have guns in their homes? I read these and wonder how 87% ans. No. All my neighbors do. The police know everyone does. Drugs and gangs are working full time in our larger citys in Oklahoma. The drug problem is going to have to be addressed and soon. In my 62 years nothing has hurt our country more. A gun to me is and always has been just another tool. It is hard for me to understand all the anti-gun stuff but thank God, Its not that big of a problem where I live and I don't look for it to be in my lifetime. Forgive an old mans rambeling.
Nesrat

[Frenchy]

I have a similar situation where I live. Our county is one of the largest in the state, but quite rural. Our problem is that Meth. production here is one of the most prolific in Missouri, and Missouri is second only to California. This by far, is the scourge that we deal with. The folks in this county are law abiding, hard working people, and shouldn't have to deal with this. They have old time values and are in most cases, armed to the teeth. My Dept. doesn't have a problem with this. The deputies know who the good guy's are and support gun ownership.
Concerning the Meth. problem, my own personal opinion is that this isn't so much a social issue as a government induced one. Now I'm sure I will catch holy hell for this, but the Drug War doesn't work. Most of the Deputies that I work with tend to agree, and they deal with it on an everyday basis, as do I. As long as this policy is used as a political football, I don't see much change. Let the FLAME began!! :)

[ 08-27-2001: Message edited by: Frenchy ]

[Nes]

I agree 100%. We have the same meth problems but it is getting better in our county thanks to a good sherff ans one of the best Highway Patrol you could ask for. Also the game rangers, federal game rangers and concerned citizens. With all that the problem is slowly going away.

[WyldOne]

Originally posted by Frenchy:
<STRONG>but the Drug War doesn't work. </STRONG>

i definitely agree. (in fact, i think this is one of the few areas where i agree w/ libertarians ;))

it's just that, drugs like heroin and cocaine and crack....i can't imagine them being legal. i'm fine with pot, lsd, etc legalization, but the biggies....i just dunno. it's a comfort level thing i guess. b/c i fully believe that if drugs are legalized, they will be regulated and taxed to hell (see cigarettes and alcohol for examples), which has its own share of pros and cons...but at least it won't be as bad as it is now...

[Eric of Indiana]

WyldOne,
You are never given a wish, without the power to make it come true. You may, however, have to work at it.
---Richard Bach

You choose to live where you do, because you won't do what is necessary to remove yourself from the area. A choice by default is still a choice.

In regards to your statement:
...a lot of that violence DOES INVOLVE GUNS!!! i seriously cannot believe you are trying to deny what i am experiencing. JUST LAST NIGHT, there were THREE shootings. 2 in dorchester, one in roxbury; ALL OF THEM occurred very close to where i live...

In the words of Archie Bunker: "Would you prefer it if they were thrown out of a window?"

[WyldOne]

Originally posted by Eric of Indiana:
<STRONG>In the words of Archie Bunker: "Would you prefer it if they were thrown out of a window?"</STRONG>

no, i would probably be equally....or at least nearly...as disgusted at the murders, and saddened at the deaths.

[ 08-27-2001: Message edited by: WyldOne ]

[John Henry]

*throws Frenchy a asbestos suit*

Gusgus .... Holy ****, I have heard some "horror stories" about N.J.'s position on gun ownership, but I had no idea it was that far to the "left".
Things are rough enough, here in Michigan (see my post in "General" on the attempt to overturn Michigan's CCW laws), but nowhere near the picture you're painting.

[Gusgus]

John,
It's worse than you think. Under Jersey law ALL FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL (even for LEO & Military)! The law then lists pages and pages of "exemptions" where firearms may be legally possessed. Because of the way the laws are written, any NJ Firearm owner may be arrested for illegal possession at any time. The burden of proof then rests on the firearm owner, to prove that he was possessing the firearm under one of the legal "exemptions".

Here's a very, very real scenario. AK-47s and their clones are listed as illegal assault weapons, BUT due to a court ruling, MAK-90s are legal. Most Jersey LEOs are not aware that this lone AK Clone is legal. So, you're stopped for a traffic violation on the way to the range, and after searching your car they find the MAK-90. Next thing you know, you're on your way to jail. Under a new "war on drug" law, the prosecutor than asks a judge to sign an order forbidding you to enter your own home and or business. There is no hearing, no due process, and no over turning of the judge's order. You are out on bail, but you have lost the use of your home, and all your firearms are rusting, dented and scratched, sitting in a barrel in some evidence room. Finally, after several months or years you get a court date. After presenting your evidence, you are declared "not guilty", you are released, and you can now re-enter your home. But, it's not over yet. There is a good possibility that you will now have to sue the State, in order to get back your by now heavily damaged firearms. BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THERE ARE DOCUMENTED CASES OF THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENING TO LAW ABIDING GUN OWNERS.

I'm just bidding my time, as I'm only here to care for my parents. Once they have gone on to a better place, I'm out of here and will not look back.

[Sir Knight]

Gusgus, MOVE your parents and take them with you! That's what I did. In 1999, I sold our house and my Mom's house and we purchased two homes down here ... one for us and one for my Mom who was about 15 minutes driving distance from me in the same town.

They've opened up another part of the swamp and they're putting up around 900 new homes. Tell me what size house you want and I can post floorplans, prices, maps, etc.

I've been down here for two years and I've gotten use to the alligators and the snakes (.40S&W, .45ACP, .357mag and 10mm for the alligators and swords & spears for the snakes). I've still trying to get adjusted to this BRUTAL heat and the insect problem. Even though we have a professional exterminator treat both the outside and the inside, we still have all sorts of weird things coming into the house and setting up little colonies. I'm especially frustrated on how to get rid of this strange creature that's about half an inch long with two giant claws coming out of his butt.

But seriously, if you want me to send you info on homes down here, I would be happy to do so. Just let me know.

[dinosaur]

Fud, it`s called a [/]cockroach[/i]! :D

[Gunslinger]

Way off topic:
Alan, I found out after moving back up here that the huge, black scorpions found in the Keys will fetch a hundred bucks wholesale from dealers up here. I don't know if they have the same scorpions where you are but if so you might want to start saving them. ;) I know I killed some where between three and four million dollars worth of them when I lived on Big Coppit Key. :eek:

[Sir Knight]

dinosaur, I don't know how to spell it but when you say it, it sounds like Ear-Wig ... the size of a roach but with two huge claws in the rear!

And on that note, let me close this topic due to size. If needed, please feel free to start a part two.