Report: New Orleans levee planners ignored danger signs


PDA
Popeye
03-22-2007, 11:18 AM
POSTED: 12:15 p.m. EDT, March 22, 2007

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (AP) -- Decades of mistakes -- some as basic as not knowing the elevation of New Orleans -- led the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to believe its levees and floodwalls would protect the city from a storm as strong as Hurricane Katrina, a report released Wednesday concludes.

The corps used obsolete research to design flood-control structures that were built too low and improperly maintained, a group of engineers and storm researchers called Team Louisiana said in its 475-page report. The report was commissioned by the state Department of Transportation and Development.

The system was intended to be strong enough to handle a Category 3 hurricane like Katrina, which devastated New Orleans when levees broke.

Two major studies last year looked at the engineering problems that caused the 2005 breaches, but the new study also closely examines whether the problems could have been foreseen when the flood-control system was created.

The report said the errors date to the original plans in 1965, which relied on land height measurements from 1929. Because the city had sunk over the years, the plans called for levees that were 1 to 2 feet too low.

"This mistake was locked in" for continuing construction by a policy adopted in 1985, even though scientists knew how fast New Orleans was sinking, the report said. By the time Katrina hit, the levees were as much as 5 feet too low.

The report also said the corps never used a storm surge model released in 1979 by the National Hurricane Center. "If they had, they would have realized that their levee system wasn't high enough for a Category 3 storm at all," said team leader Ivor van Heerden, a Louisiana State University professor, deputy director of the LSU Hurricane Center and a corps critic.

Additionally, he said the corps ignored its own models that suggested that the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet, a navigation channel completed in the early 1960s, would funnel storm surge into St. Bernard Parish and New Orleans.

Engineer: Simple calculation would have revealed flaws

The corps also should have known two canals would fail when water levels reached 10 feet. Van Heerden said that "a back-of-the-envelope calculation" would have alerted engineers to a problem with one of the canals, and that a soil strength analysis available since the 1950s would have highlighted flaws in the other.

The corps was preparing a response, spokesman John Hall said Wednesday.

Van Heerden said almost all the problems could have been avoided if independent engineers had reviewed the corps' plans before construction started.

Before Katrina struck, he said, he and fellow researchers had found sagging levees. He enlisted his students to ask the corps about them, and the agency responded by saying "'These were federal levees built to federal standards and they're not going to fail,"' he said.

The report recommended an independent planning process for hurricane protection, and an independent, bipartisan panel similar to the September 11 Commission to investigate why levees failed. The corps is expected to release a study soon tracing the decision-making process.

Census Bureau: Post-Katrina population still down

Another report this week said the pace of rebuilding after Hurricane Katrina has slowed, leaving New Orleans and some other Gulf Coast areas with less than half the people they had before the storm. And some of the hardest hit might never regain their population, experts say.

The latest Census Bureau estimates, to be released Thursday, say that 10 months after the hurricane, Orleans Parish in Louisiana had slightly less than half the people it did before the storm. Nearby St. Bernard Parish had less than a fourth of its pre-storm population.

The estimates were for July 1, 2006, but experts said few people have moved back since then.

"We're still doing cleanup but not bringing many housing units on line," said Greg Rigamer, a demographer in New Orleans. "We are in the process of rehabbing a lot of properties. It takes time to do that." Rigamer said the Census estimates for the New Orleans area were consistent with his research.

The Census Bureau estimates annual county population totals as of July 1, using local records of births and deaths, IRS records of people moving within the United States and census statistics on immigrants.

If you enjoyed reading about "Report: New Orleans levee planners ignored danger signs" here in the FamilyFriendsFirearms.com archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join FamilyFriendsFirearms.com today for the full version!
Old Soldier
03-22-2007, 12:17 PM
Oop's :D :D :D :D :D

7.62mmFMJ
03-22-2007, 02:12 PM
Yep. Government will protect us and keep us safe. Common sense takes a holiday. But I am sure they will get it right this time :rolleyes:

Zen900
03-28-2007, 05:06 PM
New Orleans is 50 miles inland. Why can't anyone admit that the reason the levees failed was that hurricane Katrina was a monster? I saw it on radar the night it came in. At 150 miles out from land it had winds of 189mph. I don't know how Pres Bush made the winds that severe but he did it none-the-less. Then him and Rove snuck in and dynamited the levees under cover of darkness.

CA357
03-28-2007, 06:39 PM
It was obviously another vicious conspiracy by "the Man" to keep the people down. People could have walked out if they had to, but they didn't. Once again, ignorance prevailed. The entitlement mentality, the something for nothing mindset, the ingrained welfare value system created and amplified the losses. Now the finger pointers, the hand wringers and the parasites like the ACLU and NAACP are fueling the flames of unrest. They remain self righteously unaware that they are not only part of the problem but that they have created much of it themselves.
Why work, why prepare, why be responsible, why elevate yourself when there are apologists to make your excuses and plead the case for the "downtrodden" masses?
As far as I can see, the NAACP, the ACLU, the Jesse Jacksons, the Al Sharptons, the Louis Farrakhans and all those other self appointed champions of the "poor" are responsible for much of the prejudice and inequality that they claim to fight against. They perpetuate ignorance because without ignorance, they'd have no constituency.

Rookie_Rover
03-28-2007, 07:01 PM
NOLA is a huge cereal bowl, made out of dirt. The center is low, the edges are high. When enough water is on the outside of the bowl, the sides WILL give way, and all the cereal inside will be washed away.

Pressure tells the tale. When you're inside a car, and brazillions of gallons (get it, brazillions-Brazilians, I made a funny with words) of water is forcing in against the outside of the windows, with nothing but plain ol' boring air on the inside to push back, eventually as the pressure on the glass builds, they'll cave in. NOLA was trying to keep water from rising inside the bowl of cereal, which was a monumental mistake. Had they allowed the water inside to climb in proportion to the water on the outside, pressure wuld have been equalized, and the levees would have held.

Yes, there is a fault, the town would have flooded. But, by letting the water build on one side of the levee and not the other, the levee failed, and the town flooded. My way would save the levee to fail another day.

eljay
03-28-2007, 10:03 PM
So what kind of person decides to live below sea level, that close to the gulf? And the biggest push by city officials, from what I could read, after the flood, was to get Mardi Gras back on track. Go figure.

Antlurz
03-28-2007, 10:44 PM
If this works as planned, the Corps of Engineers will be held responsible and Narlins will be completely rebuilt to it's former splendor, decadence and squalor on our dime.

Ron

CA357
03-28-2007, 11:44 PM
We used to love New Orleans. We went there for our honeymoon. We visited again last September. We won't travel much beyond the Central Business and Garden Districts and the French Quarter/View Carre'. It's too dangerous. The murder rate is outrageous and the crime rate is off the wall. It's just too scary. It will always have a place in our hearts, but we won't return.

Fuelburns1
03-29-2007, 12:07 AM
'These were federal levees built to federal standards and they're not going to fail,"' he said.


Well thank G-d for the all knowing government! Big Brother knows best, or was it Big Brothel? Hmmm.

CA357
03-29-2007, 12:09 AM
"We're from the government and we're here to help." :horror:

CA357
03-29-2007, 11:12 PM
My apologies to the gang here. This is essentially a thread about engineering and I've been ranting about politics. ;)

7.62mmFMJ
03-29-2007, 11:34 PM
All government projects are laced with politics.

Engineering can not be done by committee and compromise. Engineering is math - it is or it isn't.

I do not recall exactly but I believe there were 9 sectors of flood control run by umpteen different agencies, commissions, local/state/regional/federal. Heck, the UN was probably in there somewhere.

And then we have the politicians dabbling.

Antlurz
03-29-2007, 11:43 PM
Heck, the UN was probably in there somewhere.If any of this involved "wetlands" or national parks, it's likely you are correct.

Ron

Rookie_Rover
03-30-2007, 09:48 AM
So what kind of person decides to live below sea level, that close to the gulf?

Good Point!

I'm guessing someone who is hoping a hurricane will flood everything so they can get in on free government money whilst sitting on their duffs eating cheetos.

Think about it, they can live somewhere reasonably safe, and be independant, or they can by a two room shack for little to nothing (It is a swamp after all), and wait for the inevitable to come through and make them rich. We're STILL paying them to find housing. FEMA money is still being handed out like candy to babies.

Rebuilding it? Why rebuild a town that will be hit again? consider it a disaster area, amke it a Federal Offense to take residence there, and let it be done. Let the women go get drunk and show off their bare chests in West Tennessee. :D:D:D:D:D

Saunders
03-30-2007, 10:38 AM
A lot of population centers would have been ill advised based upon modern technology.

I don't fault NO for its location. I fault it for its incompetence and lack of individual initiative.

The New Madrid fault might again devastate where I live and I don't see why my fellow citizens would be faulted for living along the Ohio River valley area.

ruger22com
03-30-2007, 01:09 PM
As one who lives in this area (and lost my own roof to Katrina)...KATRINA DID NOT HIT OR DESTROY NEW ORLEANS....Katrina hit EAST of new orleans...and as anybody who lives here knows, the WORST side of a hurricane is the EAST side...New orleans was on the west side.

Huricanes blow in a circle coming off the water, and while you can have 150 MPH winds on the east side, the winds will be half that on the west side because they get slowed down by crossing the land on there way back around the circle. And the bigger the circle..the more they slowdown.
There was almost ZERO wind damage in new orleans..(unlike what the media and mayor want you to think).....it was all flooding and flood damage due to the levees giving out (which was predicted to happen for years)....but what can you expect when you build BELOW sea level...right next to the sea. What is amazing is that they are rebuilding in the same spot....and any storm at high tide is enough to make it happen again....and again...and again...

Mississippi..on the east side of the hurricane is a whole different story...it looks like 75 miles of atom bombs hit mississippi.....nothing but house concrete pads for miles...just do a search for "waveland mississippi" and see...you won't find ANY damage anything like that in New Orleans.
There are no people to complain on the coast of mississippi....unlike new orleans..they are all dead or gone.

Dframe
03-30-2007, 02:11 PM
But Farakhan told us the levees were blown up intentionally to murder black people! Cound he have been mistaken? :(

Williamlayton
05-03-2007, 07:24 AM
Whatever the case on engineering, the results are that Nawlins was cleaned out of a lot of folks and Houston got most of them.
Will they ever return?? I doubt it. Does Nawlins have a continueing crime problem?? Yes--but that is too be placed in the lap of Nawlins and their police department, which has been the most corrupt--kinda goes with the flow as Louisiana is very corrupt--department in the nation, and has forever.
The storm will eventually prove too be a good thing for Nawlins--fewer welfare reciepients and therefore less crime--when they get a decent police force.
Those who moved to Houston have proved too be a load, but, they are learning a bit about Texas law and our ability to procecute too the fullest measure.
Blessings

If you enjoyed reading about "Report: New Orleans levee planners ignored danger signs" here in the FamilyFriendsFirearms.com archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join FamilyFriendsFirearms.com today for the full version!