NICS Denied. What To Do?


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Ecclectigun
05-21-2007, 06:44 PM
Back in 1995 I went to a pawn shop and tried to buy a .22 revolver. I filled out my info to be submitted to NICS and the pawn shop sent it in. Five days later the shop called and asked me to come in. I did and was told NICS denied my purchase. The pawn shop owner said that NICS does not tell them why and gave me a phone number to call.

I called the number and the woman told me that I had an outstanding traffic ticket that had turned into a warrant for my arrest.

Now, I read up on this and the way I understand it, such info is not supposed to be given over the phone. None the less, it was.

The lady told me where, when and what for I had gotten the ticket. I explained that I had gotten such a ticket (parking- oh, look out- I'm a big time bad guy), and had paid it. She pretty much said, prove it.

It was from 10 months prior and I had a copy of the ticket and a receipt for paying it from the Orleans sheriffs office. I also went down to the New Orleans police dept, gave them my drivers license and asked them to run me. The first thing they said was, "Why? What'd you do that you want to know if we know what you did?" Ha! Funny cops. I explained and they obliged. I came back clean. I sent my info to the address provided by the lady at NICS, paid for a second NICS check, waited 5 more days and was approved. I got the gun.

Last year I was at a gun show and tried to buy an M6 Scout. The gun show was doing instant back ground checks and there was no 5 day wait on long guns anyway. My buddy, who submitted his form to the same vendor, at the same time, for the same type of gun, got his approved right away. I waited. And I waited. After a few hours the vendor told me my request was delayed. Not denied. Delayed. I asked her why and she told me they would not tell her. She can not even ask, she said. What she did was offer to give the gun to a local gun shop to hold while my request was under review. I had to pay, in advance, for the gun to shipped back to the vendor if i was denied. That was a Friday. NICS doesn't handle reviews on weekends. Come Thursday of the next week, 3 business days after my request, not counting the day it was put in or the final day, I was able to pick up my gun with out NICS ever approving or denying my request. The way I get it, FFL holders who sell guns can make a determination to sell or refuse to sell a gun if NICS takes more than 3 days. I called NICS once to ask what was up and they put me on hold till I was ultimately disconnected. I called the next day and was told to call back later, my request was still pending. Well, after I got the gun, I let the whole thing drop.

What can I do now?

I want to buy another gun, er, firearm. I have bought a black powder since then but, those don't require a NICS. I want another pistol and I know I will have to do a NICS. Even if I buy from a private citizen, I know guy who has the gun I want, wants to go through an FFL. I don't blame him and I especially wouldn't blame him if he said no, even though we are friendly acquaintances, if I told him this story as a reason why. I wouldn't do it if I were him.

Has anyone else had this happen? How bout you FFLs, any experiences?

How bout this link?

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/nicsfact.htm

Thanks!

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youmightbearedneck
05-21-2007, 07:33 PM
I don't kow the law in the State you live in (still in LA?), but here, you don't have to do NICS for a face to face between two residents of the same State. Isn't going to cost extra to go through a dealer? Most charge a transfer fee.

Have the FFL run you through, it seems like you got the gun both times, maybe it will go smoother this time.:dunno:

Fuelburns1
05-21-2007, 08:11 PM
You may have the same name and hometown as someone who is not eligible to purchase. I've seen several times at Gander Mountain when NICS didn't clear right away because of this. You may also want to do a free credit report to make sure you don't have anyone sharing your SS number or anything like that. My guess though is that the traffic ticket mess was never resolved in the NICS system even though it wasn't ever a real issue.

Mike Weber
05-21-2007, 09:03 PM
You may have the same name and hometown as someone who is not eligible to purchase.

I had this happen to me about five years ago when I went down to the courthouse to renew my CCW permit.
I was able to get the mess straightened out easily enough, but then I was dealing with locals rather that federal agencies.

NavajoNPaleFace
05-21-2007, 11:40 PM
NICS can show a "hit" on someone for any number of reasons.

The most common, of course, are those who have a felony conviction.

But if a run is done on a common name with a SAME or SIMILAR DOB or even a SSN with a number or two off...even a similar hometown, etc. for anyone that has a felony it's gonna be a positive hit...most likely.

I've seen it hundreds of times.

For example.....Floyd Arnold is run and a Lloyd Arnold with the same or similar DOB comes back with a felony the person receiving the hit has to determine if it might be Floyd. It can be difficult sometimes and some will reject the sale just to be on the safe side.

I've even seen instances of someone using a SSN or a DOB during booking, etc. that belongs to someone else and when a run is done that SSN or DOB comes back with an arrest or even a subsequent felony conviciton...albeit possibly a different name on the rap sheet.

It can take years and a lot of expense to cleanse your own rap sheet of any negative **** that doesn't belong to you. If you are extremely concerned a lawyer is the one to get the ball rolling on cleaning up anything for you.

Keep in mind a person's rap sheet will show arrests even when no disposition is given and that will never be removed.

In your case the bench warrant most likely will never be taken off.

Only things that do not belong to you MIGHT be removed.

The processes whereby charges are entered by the booking or arresting agency is a lengthy and compicated process that would take more space than I have here to explain it all.

Trying to get that agency to remove something is like trying to get the IRS off yer back, etc.

Ecclectigun
05-21-2007, 11:43 PM
I'm in Texas now and have't tried to buy a gun here.

Louisiana does not require any NICS for person to person gun sales. Heck, my wife bought me a gun as a present ( I married right ) and we typed up a bill of transfer and brought it to a lawyer/notary and he looked at us and asked why we wanted to waste $25 on him stamping a paper we didn't need stamped!

The guy who has the gun I want lives in New Mexico. Even if he lived next door, he's the type who would want to go through a FFL dealer, just to be safe. His gun, his call.

Besides, even though I've got the gun I was after both times, I want this cleared up for good.

I'm gonna go to the local PD and have them run my DL. They seem cool around here. After that, I'll call NICS and the FBI using those numbers from the link above. Hey, one of you got a phone I can borrow? :doom:

Edit- Just read NavajoNPaleFace (http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com/forum/member.php?u=2664) post and remebered that I have that service where you pay a small annual fee to ask a lawyer basic questions. I'll try that first. The warrant turned out to be bogus as NOPD had nothing on me about it. NICS never explained how they made that mistake.

OFallon
05-22-2007, 10:31 AM
Based upon my reading, a traffic ticket cannot be used as the basis to deny in the first place. I'm lost...

Joe B.
05-22-2007, 11:15 AM
It is as aggravating for the seller as it is the buyer when the NICS people put you on delay with no explanation and no word during the resulting waiting period. Even if you were approved two days before, instantly. And what it means when it goes from Delay to Open on the 5th day is that no one has even looked at the file yet.

I have had them call me 20 days later and say this transaction is denied. I said "well you are a bit late". And had to fax the detailed info to them, so they could go pick up a felon that slipped through the cracks and walked out with a gun.

The system works fairly well, when they are not so understaffed that they can't get to the files that the computer system flags for agent review. Out of over 400 sales in a year and a half since we opened this store, we have had exactly two that got through and then were denied later due to criminal history. (Several were denied instantly when the NICS computer spotted their criminal records) Most criminals are smart enough not to go to a dealer and fill out paperwork. But the system can nicely sweep up the dumber crooks that way.

Joe B.
05-22-2007, 11:20 AM
Oh and if denied for no reason, ask the dealer for an appeal form so that you can file an appeal with the NICS system, and get it cleared up.
For here in Arkansas, the easiest way to end the hassles is go through the concealed carry course and background check, get it all squared away and form 4473 still has to be filled out but not run through the NICS check, just filed away in the dealer's records.

NavajoNPaleFace
05-22-2007, 02:25 PM
Based upon my reading, a traffic ticket cannot be used as the basis to deny in the first place. I'm lost...

I read the speeding ticket had turned into a bench warrant.

In most states that is grounds for denial.

Did I read it wrong?

NavajoNPaleFace
05-22-2007, 02:26 PM
Oh and if denied for no reason, ask the dealer for an appeal form so that you can file an appeal with the NICS system, and get it cleared up.
For here in Arkansas, the easiest way to end the hassles is go through the concealed carry course and background check, get it all squared away and form 4473 still has to be filled out but not run through the NICS check, just filed away in the dealer's records.

I guess Arkansas is easier than Arizona because if you have a warrant for your arrest, like Eccelctigun mentioned, you ain't gonna get your CCW here regardless of how insignificant the original charge is.

Plus, if you sumbit a CCW app here (and you have put your address on it) and you have an outstanding warrant you just MIGHT get an unexpected visit.

retiredsquid
05-22-2007, 04:13 PM
I always get delayed or denied if I do not put my SSN on the form. I have been told there are two reasons for this. #1 I have been investigated by DoD and the FBI for SSBIs right at 7 times so far due to security clearances and that pops a flag without details. #2 There is a fellow with my same name and DOB with a rap sheet as long as your arm and he received a DD from the Navy in 1976.

I have my CHL from Arkansas and that has been worth every dime and my time to obtain. No longer have to do anything other than fill out the BATF form and hand the nice man my money.

Saunders
05-22-2007, 04:17 PM
I've never had a delay and I had a Q clearance at one time.

I do add my SS number though.

Joe B.
05-22-2007, 05:58 PM
I guess Arkansas is easier than Arizona because if you have a warrant for your arrest, like Eccelctigun mentioned, you ain't gonna get your CCW here regardless of how insignificant the original charge is.

Plus, if you sumbit a CCW app here (and you have put your address on it) and you have an outstanding warrant you just MIGHT get an unexpected visit.

Hence my caveat of "denied for no reason" (which assumes you are not a bad guy and should be able to appeal), such as confusing you with someone else's bad record. If you are an honest, upstanding citizen, you can appeal a denial. But if you pass the more intensive background check for the CCW you don't have to face a possible denial again, because the 4473 does not have to be run through NICS anymore, it is at dealer option from that point on.

I know a active police officer of Irish descent and he gets delayed every single time he comes in, and it's either because of confusion with someone else, or the FBI may think he is possible IRA terrorist. Always an eventual Proceed or Open, never denied.

Dennis Foote
05-24-2007, 11:20 PM
The most effective, yet expensive, way to take care of this is to hire a gun rights attorney to get it cleared up.

Chuck Langenderfer
05-28-2007, 03:47 PM
Nics are 'federal workers' and they dont need reasons-kinda like Teddy.

budroe
05-29-2007, 01:56 PM
I'm a resident of Texas. I've never been charged with any crime, not even a traffic or parking ticket. I've also worked for the federal government and have held a top secret security clearance for the last thirty years. Until I got my Texas concealed carry permit I had to put up with a 72 hour wait for every weapon I purchased. Your purchase request can be held up by NICS for any number of reasons. If you're a Texas resident get a CCW permit and you'll no longer require a NICS check for weapons purchases.

Ecclectigun
09-13-2007, 05:54 PM
So, I went to a pay phone, those are getting hard to find, and called the cops to to get some info on what could possibly be going on. They asked a lot of questions about who and where I was. I'm sure they could trace where the pay phone was, I just didn't want them to come to the house. I tried to put them off of that line and just get answers to my questions. Seems cops like to be the ones doing the asking. After a little back and forth, the cop said he wasn't going to answer any questions unless I came down in person. I asked what would happen if there was "something on me" even if it was a mistake. He said we'd sort all that out at the station. "Yeah", I said, "from behind bars. I'm sure.", and hung up.

I know I'm clean. It's the system I worry about.

Well, I've decided to enroll in a community service program in my town. I know the PD will do a back ground check on me, it says so on the enrollment form.

We shall see.

If I don't get arrested, I'll try to buy a gun soon. If I do get arrested... know any good lawyers? If I get a hassel on the gun back ground check I'll be right back here with details and go from there. My wife and I are in one of those legal aid programs where we pay a small fee to have lawyers on call to answer questions and give light advice or direct us to the next step, but I called two of them and they have not replied.

Dennis Foote
09-13-2007, 07:55 PM
What you have to realize is that the NICS system was designed to deny as many gun sales as possible.
Despite what our "friends" in Washingtoon say, the government wants us all disarmed!!
It's the natural response of any government!!

lead
09-13-2007, 09:32 PM
The fact that you have moved, and haven't purchased a gun in awhile, are all reasons that NICS might delay you. I sold a gun to a guy who had been a gunsmith in Kansas. He had moved to Missouri, was buying his first gun in over a year, and got denied. But after a day or so, they gave him the go ahead.
I would go ahead and make the purchase. The more times you are in the system, with a go ahead, the less likely it seems you'll get delayed.

eljay
09-13-2007, 11:07 PM
I've never had a delay and I had a Q clearance at one time.

I do add my SS number though.

Me, too. Never guessed that my previous security clearances might have had anything to do with it, but maybe so.

I'm like the others responding who live in Texas and and have CHPs. Now, never any delay at all.

Saunders
09-14-2007, 08:56 AM
I don't anyone who was delayed or turned down but I have read about it on the net a few times on forums like this.

Grit
09-14-2007, 10:51 AM
Same here with the ccw in Texas. I've only been held up once on a check (this was before I got my ccw) and it was about 10 minutes, no big deal really. Since I've had my ccw, no problems at all.

If you live in Texas now, I'd get the ball rolling getting yourself a ccw. Their going to check all that out, but once it's cleared up, your good to go.

Garrett

Wayne the Shrink
09-14-2007, 03:16 PM
Doesn't the ATF offer a unique identifier program. Where you sign up for a number combination that applies only to you for firearms purchases? Might that program be a solution?

Urzandowski
09-14-2007, 10:16 PM
Several years ago I had problems in buying a couple of guns. Turned out they wanted to know what town I was born in. Then it was approved. I guess theres somebody around here with my name.

Ecclectigun
09-23-2007, 10:53 PM
I've been accepted to CERT and the Community Relations Officer (a cop) is even calling me at home, after hours, from his home and leaving me his cell phone number. I musta checked out OK.

Or it's a trap. :D

Grit
09-23-2007, 11:02 PM
Or it's a trap. :D

Watch out for them bugs.:D

Garrett

asnider123
09-26-2007, 09:24 PM
Does my Okie CCW allow me the 'NICS express lane' when I make another purchase? Don't remember a place on the NICS form to put your CCW number

Ecclectigun
12-19-2007, 11:19 PM
Well, I completed CERT. I'm now a CERTified volunteer to fire, police and medical personel in my community. I like this place. It's good to do something for it.

During the course I asked the police Sgt, who is our instructor and team leader, if he found anything in my background that would prevent me from passing NICS and I told him why I was asking. He said not only can I pass NICS but I can also pass the background check for a concealed carry permit.

Looks like the whole thing before was a glitch. Two glitches. And the lack of explanation and accountability for hindering my constitutional rights is appalling. NICS is broken.

Joe B.
12-20-2007, 09:50 AM
Does my Okie CCW allow me the 'NICS express lane' when I make another purchase? Don't remember a place on the NICS form to put your CCW numberThere is a place for the dealer to do so, it is not in the section you fill out yourself. With CCW, the Form 4473 still has to be filled out, but the background check is optional. The dealer can simply file the form and be done, or he can call it in, at his discretion.

Vibe
12-20-2007, 10:44 AM
NICS is broken.
Nope. I figure it works pretty much as intended, IE not well.

Nathan C Lewis
12-20-2007, 07:26 PM
Sometimes I get a delay:down: , and sometimes I don't:up:, I think it depends on who the person is on the other end:P Nate

Joe B.
12-21-2007, 12:15 AM
Doesn't the ATF offer a unique identifier program. Where you sign up for a number combination that applies only to you for firearms purchases? Might that program be a solution?It is issued in the case of an appeal that gains approval, and as I understand it is a one time number to continue the denied transaction.

Your Social Security Number was supposed to be a unique identifier, so was your drivers license number. The bar code they want to put in the palm of your hand is supposed to be a unique identifier. And the microchip, and the...............:(

Joe B.
12-21-2007, 12:23 AM
Sometimes I get a delay:down: , and sometimes I don't:up:, I think it depends on who the person is on the other end:P NateI use the internet for 99% of all my background checks. With many people the NICS computer comes back with an Proceed faster than it can change to the fresh page. Those are the ones who have no files on them at all.

Then the ones who take about 5-10 minutes for an answer. They have files they probably don't even know about, or they are a cop, security guard, former military or government employee. Whatever the reason they have files that require a real human to glance at and approve.

Then the delays that get approved later, have files that the agent reviewing it realizes, that a decision without in depth review is not possible at this time. Then it is a coin toss as to Proceed or Deny.

Then I have had them Deny and call me five minutes later wanting the current address of the bad guy dumb enough to fill out a 4473. :D

Oh, and one guy waited until the five days was up, no answer from NICS, picked up his gun and 15 days later they called and denied it. When I told them the sale had been concluded, he was contacted by the FBI and given 24 hours to bring the gun back, which he did, and they verified. He had a protective order out on him during his pending divorce. Don't know why it took a total of 20 days to get an answer on that one.

Joshua M. Smith
12-21-2007, 03:24 AM
My real name is indeed Josh Smith, born 11-05-1977. Despite the common name, and despite the similarity of my social security number (one number off) to another Josh Smith in South Central Indiana with a rap sheet, it always goes through without delay when I put in my social security number. I've not had any sort of problem yet, though I hold my breath each time I buy one.

It's funny; I'll watch people with the most unusual names get turned down, at least one per day if I'm hanging out at the gun store, but never the common names.

I was bonded at one time in my "distant" past, hold a CCW license, and have an first aid/CPR card "for the professional rescuer" that expired in '97 (looking to get it renewed these days), but I don't think any of that stuff is in the NICS system...?

I agree, the system does not work well at all.

Josh <><

Nathan C Lewis
12-21-2007, 04:43 AM
Josh Smith, AKA>> Indiana Jones:D :D Nate

OFallon
12-21-2007, 04:46 AM
Bond. James Bond. Slightly shaken - not stirred!

Joshua M. Smith
12-21-2007, 05:12 AM
Nate, you know, you're not the first one to have called me Indiana, due mostly I think to the hat I wear and my affinity for my bull whips my grandparents brought back yearly from Mexico. I have a 15 foot one and a 3 foot one left - and the 15 footer is in bad shape, leather ripped. Can't do as much with the three footer.

Only thing is that I tend to get called "Indiana Smith." Not sure if it's a compliment...

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Me/OldWest1.jpg

Josh <><

OFallon
12-21-2007, 05:20 AM
I'm blind!!! I'M BLIND!!!

Joshua M. Smith
12-21-2007, 05:26 AM
Had to dig around in the wall for that one. Rodents have been digging into them to get away from the cold, and I figured that might scare 'em off.

Josh <><

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