[bd]

The idea of issuing national ID cards to US citizens is being batted around, how do you feel about that? Would you mind having to prove that you are an American Citizen to use public transportation? to buy ammo? to open a bank account? to buy diesel fuel for your truck or nitrogen for your farm? Would there be spot checks on the highways set up like DWI roadblocks? How secure could it be? Any college freshman can get a fake driver's license in a day's time to get into a bar. Are we ready for this? On the other hand someone who couldn't produce one of these IDs could not board a plane, buy ammo or the ingredients to make bombs. Innocent people who were not U.S. citizens might as well have a big red "T" on their forehead if they couldn't show an ID. I value your opinions.

[Nes]

I say no. Bad idea.For all the reasons you mentioned +. :mad:

[WyldOne]

first of all, i think it is an absolutely, completely, astoundingly BAD idea. to say the least. ;)

but...don't you have to show some sort of ID when you open a bank account? if memory serves...you basically have to prove that you do, in fact, exist...i don't think you have to prove that you're a US citizen (do you?)

[HiPower]

Nazi Germany required these, too. So did the U.S.S.R.

Wanna bet on whether or not you need one in the PRC?

[bd]

HiPower,
A terribly ironic thought came to my mind as I read your reply and I would never trade places with anyone in any of these countries. But the PRC, Russia and Nazi Germany all have at least one thing in common, they never had any trouble with terrorists.I'm not for 1 minute suggesting that we should be like them but,what does that say about us? Will we have to become more like them to defend against terrorism and if we do, won't that be a victory for the terrorists? God help us! BD

[Gusgus]

Originally posted by BigDaddy:
<STRONG>...the PRC, Russia and Nazi Germany all have at least one thing in common, they never had any trouble with terrorists.BD</STRONG>

And the French Resistance was what? Let's see, blowing up rail lines, bridges, trains, aircraft, power lines. Oh, that's right, they where freedom fighters. See, it all depends on which side you are on. :D

[WyldOne]

Originally posted by BigDaddy:
<STRONG>But the PRC, Russia and Nazi Germany all have at least one thing in common, they never had any trouble with terrorists.</STRONG>

and how free were/are they?

how much of your freedom are you willing to sacrifice?.....

[Col. Mustard]

Originally posted by WyldOne:
<STRONG>

and how free were/are they?

how much of your freedom are you willing to sacrifice?.....</STRONG>

I might add the Chechnyans vs. the Russians to Gusgus' comment, above...

I think we've all sacrificed enough of our freedoms. We need to start getting them back, so we can take back responsibility for our own lives.

[bd]

Gusgus, You got me! I guess Hitler considered the Resistance as terrorists, now ain't that something to ponder? But all these countries mentioned tend to keep a pretty tight rein on their citizens and non-citizens. They also showed no mercy, usually their answer to a problem was a bullet in the back of the head on the spot. I ain't saying that's the right way but it works (most of the time) for them. In the end I guess good people will always step up and fight for what's right. There's no way we can be too thankful for being Americans! You gave me a good little lesson there. Thanks,BD

[loknload]

Sorry folks, This is no good and this New Homeland Security post is going to need watching. I'm sure that all the Sheeple of the country will fall for it, knee jerk feel good solutions. I just seen a drug company ad touting how wonderful an ID card would be containing DNA, Drug and other medical info,Was this a setup of things to come, I don't know but I found it amazing that I see this aired after all this tragedy has taken place and an announcement of a new Government post.
Cards today, Tatoos tomorrow? Makes me cringe a bit :eek: We have to watch what we wish for ;)

[Frenchy]

Just another "feel good" security measure to erode civil liberties. It will take a week for the BG's to figure out how to counterfeit one. :rolleyes:

[HiPower]

Quote from BigDaddy:
But the PRC, Russia and Nazi Germany all have at least one thing in common, they never had any trouble with terrorists

Its hard to have a problem with terrorism when you are the state sponsor!! :D

[ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: HiPower ]

[bd]

A terribly ironic thought came to my mind as I read your reply and I would never trade places with anyone in any of these countries.________ ButI'm not for 1 minute suggesting that we should be like them but,what does that say about us? Will we have to become more like them to defend against terrorism and if we do, won't that be a victory for the terrorists? God help us! BD

Just re-posting the rest of my previous post #61 it appears that it didn't go out in it's entirety. :p :D :p :D BD

[Sandman]

Just finished approx 2 hours worth of reading on several web sites. Subject:
Public law 104-208 ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION REFORM AND IMMIGRANT RESPONSIBILITY ACT OF 1996, Sections 656 and 657.
The way I read them we already have a National ID law in effect. Have any members of the Bar taken a look at this?

[bsampsel]

Who needs a national ID card?

We have the social security numbers, which you cannot avoid having anymore. I'm told that hospitals even ignore the parents and apply the kid for them. :mad:

The infrastructure is there...the SSN was ONLY supposed to have a limited scope of use. But, like other brainstorms like this, it has been twisted out of convenience.

The electronic frontier foundation fights this one a lot, with some help from the ACLU (yeah, they do do some good stuff).

I believe they're at http://www.eff.org

bryan

[Col. Mustard]

Doesn't Massachusetts (help me out here, Denise) use the SSN as the driver's license number? I seem to remember at one time (early 60s) they were the same...

[WyldOne]

they give you an option of using your SSN (which honestly, i don't know why anyone would do that. but okay.), or having the state assign you a computer-generated a number at random. you can tell if it's a state assigned number b/c there is an S before the number

[PreserveFreedom]

A national ID would take away a lot of the individuality that the states posess. I have no doubt that it would become a federal driver license. After that, can a state's court suspend it for a major traffic violation, or do they need to go to a federal court for sentencing? If they want to do something federal, they should give us federal license plates. It would eliminate profiling of out of towners when traveling and it would keep some states from gouging people based on what kind of car they drive rather than a flat rate or horsepower classification.

[bsampsel]

Yeah, but it federalizes a power that Constitutionally belongs to the States.

A dangerous trend we've been on the last few years...including certain NRA backed gun laws.

bryan

[jsr5]

I see two ways to solve the problem of terrorism on our soil the one is to go the way of Russia and remove all freedom. The other is to totally embrace our freedom, properly define the Bill of rights and return to total freedom where people are resonsible for thier "pursuit of Happiness" and no the Government. if the 2nd Amendmant were properly used the number of freely armed people in the streets in the businesses, in their homes and of course in the air would make our homeland so inhospitable to terrorist acts they would soon turn to easier targets. Just my opinion. Some one quotes somthing to the effect aht people who give up rights for security neither recieve nor deserve either. I think that makes tremendous amounts of sense.

[John Henry]

Take heart ..... at least for the time being.
http://english.hk.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/technology/newsbytes/article.html?s=hke/headlines/010928/technology/newsbytes/White_House_Will_Not_Support_Push_For_National_ID_Card.html

[bsampsel]

in case the link goes away, here's what John was posting:


Friday, September 28 6:43 AM SGT

White House Will Not Support Push For National ID Card
WASHINGTON, D.C., U.S.A., 2001 SEP 27 (NB) -- By Brian Krebs, Newsbytes.
Bush administration officials say the president will not support calls in Congress for a creating a national identification card to help combat terrorism.

While some lawmakers in Congress have said they'd like to take a fresh look at the issue, White House spokesman Jimmy Orr said President Bush "is not even considering the idea."

Since the Sept. 11 attacks, a number of House and Senate lawmakers have begun dusting off the idea of instituting a national identification card, or adding a biometric identifier such as a fingerprint to all Social Security cards.

The idea is apparently popular with Americans as well. According to a telephone poll of more than 1,200 people interviewed by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, fully 70 percent of the public would favor a law requiring citizens to carry a national ID card at all times.

In a televised interview Wednesday, House Immigration Subcommittee Chairman George Gekas, R-Pa., said his office is constantly receiving inquiries from the public in support of the idea.

There have even been calls for a national ID card from the private sector. In an interview on San Francisco's KPIX-TV last Friday, Oracle Corp. Chairman and CEO Larry Ellison's offered to pony up the software needed to create a national ID system.

"We need a national ID card with our photograph and thumbprint digitized and embedded in the ID card," Ellison told the television station.

U.S. residents' identification and fingerprints would be stored in a database to check against ID cards presented at airports to tighten security in hopes of stopping terrorist attacks.

Yet the idea has met with consistent opposition from consumer and civil liberties groups, who say it would only lead to more racial profiling and would do little to deter terrorist attacks.

"The reality is that ID cards will do very little to stop this sort of stuff, but it will make it much easier to track everybody else for any number of purposes," said Privacy International's David Banisar in an interview with Newsbytes on Tuesday. "In the end, this would simply give legal justification for all kinds of profiling that we've seen so many bad examples of in the past few years."

In an interview with CNN on Wednesday, Gekas said despite the public's interest he sees little appetite in Congress to proceed with hearings on a national ID. Gekas said national identification cards are more subject to fraud than almost any other kind of documentation.

"The fraud elements and the terrorist activities can go beyond the ID card, and it would turn out to be completely useless," he said.