[guerrilla1138]

Okay first off a Warning!: The pictures contained in the following link are not suitable for anyone who has a weak stomach, pukes when they see blood, or in any other way shape or form has a really bad reaction (including being prone to nightmares) to seeing not nice things happen to the human body.
(That being said, if you carry a knife for defense, even back-up to a back-up, even if you fit the description in the warning, it might be in your own interest to see the following.)

http://216.92.33.45/forum/Forum1/HTML/015918.html
I did mean what I said about these being graphic post-knife fight photos. Look at your own risk!

I found this link on Blade Forums today, and in the few short minutes it took me to look at them, and in the several long minutes it took me to fully comprehend them, I learned something which I couldnt have in 10 years of in the class-room training.
I cant really describe what it is, but I'm sure you'll find out for yourself.

If you carry a knife for defense you have to know what might happen if you get into a knife fight, you have to know, there is no way of getting around it and still being able to say you are prepared to use it, IMO.

If you dont think you can handle it, dont carry it, please.

I spent 30 or so minutes today evaluating whether or not I was still comfortable with carrying a defensive knife and whether or not I felt I could handle it.
Its still there folded in my pocket, but I think my understanding, respect, and willingness to RUN LIKE HELL if I can, has been strengthened.

Something to note, the pictures are of both combatants. If you notice, one of them is hurt far worse than the other. The guy who is hurt the worst has strikes on him that seem to indicate that his opponent knew what he was doing.
The other guy has fewer and less damaging strikes ot his body.
Its my assumption that the guy who was hit the worst was untrained, but that his opponent had at least some sort of an idea what he was doing. Training, training, training...there is no subsitute for it, and in a bad situation, it improves your chances of having the edge(no pun intended.) you need to walk away.


My apologies if this got to anybody :(...Just didnt see anyway I could get around it and still feel I was doing my duty as the Moderator of a Close Quarter Combat forum.

[BadMedicine]

I think TannerJJ said it best: Man I could have gone the rest of the night without viewing that.

Hehe..good pictures to show the seriousness of a knife. I carry a knife for handiness. It is the pimpest cheapest self defence knife around. I bought it at a gas station for like 5 bucks...(hey, quit rolling your eyes!! :D)... it's about 1/3 inch thick, and all stainless steel, so it fits nicely in any pocket. About 4 inches folded, so prolly 7 or so open, slightly curved, fits nicely in hand for carving, cutting, or jabbing even. My favorite features are the grooves cut i nthe handle so you can see the blade in there, it makes the oveall wieght lighter, and the gripping better, adn the screw i nthe blade for quick opening. This knife is RAZOR sharp (I've shaved hair off my arm with it..) and a great everyday use/carry knife. This summer when I lost it I was almost sick :( I haven't seen them sold since, but would buy 3 more if I did. luckily I found it (wasn't really lost afterall.

Anyways, yeah, that post is a good one. Linking to the pics is the best way when theyre like that...but you did good on the warning, I thought they were gonna be WAY bad (not like having your throat slit aint :D...) but I expected to see bowels o nthe ground or something. Knives are definately weapons..tools..they should be taken seriously.

[Col. Mustard]

If you carry a knife for defense you have to know what might happen if you get into a knife fight, you have to know, there is no way of getting around it and still being able to say you are prepared to use it, IMO.

If you dont think you can handle it, dont carry it, please.

I'm puzzled. In the first place, simply having a weapon may be enough to prevent the encounter. In the second, there's no assurance that any such encounter will result in serious gore; a lot of people tend to get discouraged at the first couple of small lacerations. In the third place, what are the options? Being defenseless? And finally, while we may not relish the thought of living with such images, we may very well realize that the alternative of not carrying would have been worse.

[ 11-28-2001: Message edited by: Clueless in Charlotte ]

[guerrilla1138]

I have always figured that if one carries a weapon, but then ends up in a situation where they cannot bring themselves to use it to the extent needed, they are just as (or even more) screwed than if they had nothing.

Yes a simple cut or two can stop an attack (Our own Sandy can verify this.), sometimes simply presenting a weapon is enough threat (I can attest to this.) but if once you have presented it, or made a couple of cuts with it, if you dont have the ability to continue with your course of action, you are screwed. Anytime I ever presented a blade, or a fighting stick(the only weapons I have ever presented like that), I was ready to use it until I no longer was in danger. As it turned out the stick was the only thing that ever got used, and only breifly. But if I had not been able to use that stick, the chances of me giving another weapon to my attacker without meaning to, are higher.

If you cant use it, dont carry it, for your own safety. I have always believed that.

Not saying that if say you dont think you could use a knife, you cant carry an ASP baton if you are comfortable with that.

If you dont think you could cut someone, but have no problem smashing their bones, then an ASP seems like the weapon for you, and if you have one, I'm glad you've got it.

This is all ust IMHO of course.

[ 11-28-2001: Message edited by: guerilla1138 ]

[Bubba]

While I have never faced "live steel", I have worked with a couple of folks who have. One of the tools they used was an "electric knife"; a dull knife with an electric wire on the blade edge. This is connected to a modified electric fence charger. The man using it is a master. A survior of many many encounters with live steel.

That electric knive is EVIL! I had whelps all over my body. The electricity felt very much like I was being cut. I tried over and over to just apply a single cut. And I was sliced to ribbons.

I learned, in painful detail, that I can NOT win a knife fight. No one WINS a knife fight. You survive. I learned I do NOT want to BE in a knife fight. I just want to get away. Running is always the best option.....

Provided that 1911 is not on my hip... ;)

[Sir Knight]

Originally posted by guerilla1138: <STRONG>... Yes a simple cut or two can stop an attack (Our own Sandy can verify this.), sometimes simply presenting a weapon is enough threat (I can attest to this.) but if once you have presented it, or made a couple of cuts with it, if you dont have the ability to continue with your course of action, you are screwed. Anytime I ever presented a blade, or a fighting stick(the only weapons I have ever presented like that), I was ready to use it until I no longer was in danger. As it turned out the stick was the only thing that ever got used, and only breifly. But if I had not been able to use that stick, the chances of me giving another weapon to my attacker without meaning to, are higher.

If you cant use it, dont carry it, for your own safety. I have always believed that ...</STRONG>The same rules that apply to a gun also apply to a knife and to ANYTHING that can be USED as a weapon ... when push comes to shove, you have to be prepared to use it and not merely hope that just by showing the weapon, it will scare the attacker away. Here are two personal experiences that happened to me about twenty years ago ... I was coming home from Karate class. I did not yet own a car and in order to get home, I had to walk through some pretty rough neighborhoods. Looking back, the smarter thing to do would have been to take a bus or a cab but I was young. I was fit. I was taking karate lessons and I though that I was invinsible.

I was about halfway home when I was approached by an individual who asked me if I could spare a couple of dollars. I told him "no" and that if I had money to give out, I wouldn't be walking.

I turned and walked away and several seconds later I was hit in the side of the head with a metal chain. I fell to the ground with blood dripping into my eyes. He stood over me swinging his chain. I reached into my back pocket and pulled out a four inch knife and started lunging [sp] at him in an attempt to either stab him or slash him or both.

My head was pounding and everything was spinning and I didn't get anywhere near him but seeing the knife and seeing that I was willing to use it scared him off and he ran away.

Another event turned out differently. I was leaving campus via the gate and another car was driving in the middle of the road and we nearly side-swiped each other forcing me to drive up on the curve in order to avoid an accident. It was in the middle of the summer and both of us had our windows open and I called him an "idiot" and drove off.

He took exception to that and took off after me.

Several minutes later I arrived at the store that I was going to and I see him pull in after me, jump out of his car and run toward me. I pulled out my trusty 4" knife in an attempt to scare him off. It didn't work because he kept coming.

I was now faced with a moral & legal delema [sp] ... would defending myself with a knife be justified based on what had happened and what was happening right now.

I didn't think so especially since I could still run away. So while it wasn't very Macho of me, I jumped into my car and drove off. He ran back to his car and chased after me.

I thought about driving to a police station but since I was the one who first introduced a knife into the situation, I thought that that would count against me and decided against going there. Fortunately, after several minutes, I lost him in the maze of side streets.I told these two stories together because they illustrate and guts of what I want to say ...

Do not display ANY weapon (be it knife, gun, whatever) for the purpose of "scaring" someone away with it. Yes it is true that in a MAJORITY of cases, displaying a weapon will scare someone off, there are times when it will not! At that point you have to be prepared to use it without hesitation and if it is a deadly weapon (knife, gun, etc.) then you should only bring it into the equation because you or a loved one is in danger of serious injury or death.

[ 11-28-2001: Message edited by: Alan Fud ]

[Gunslinger]

Good job on the warning guerilla.

I'm one of thos people that pose a far greater threat to myself with my own knife than I ever would to my opponent. :rolleyes: I learned long ago in my hands a knife is only useful for task cutting inanimate objects and not fightin'. But that is just me. I know others can use one quite effectively.

I still bear a scar on the inside of either forearm from my first enounter with someone wielding a knife. I was a young, inexperienced officer and did not pay enough attention to a young hopped up kid. Before I realized my error he whipped out a knife and made a wide, horizontal, arching swipe with it. Instinct and lack of training caused me to recoil back and raise my arms in the classic "surrender pose" with my arms up as if I were a stagecoach driver and the James/Younger gang were robbing me. I wasn't surrendering but that was what instinct and reaction caused me to do. You get the picture.
My next instinct was to drop my hand to the weapon on my hip with thoughts of sending the guy to meet his long deceased ancestors. But we were in a tight crowd with several people behind him and I was armed with 1911 and issued hardball. Fortunately for all concerned common sense prevailed with both of us; I second thought shooting him and six more people behind him and he, seeing the threat of the .45, decided it was time to drop the knife and beg for the mercy of not run the risk of having the blood in his viens replaced with embalming juice. At the time I was mad, frustrated and scared and was cussing because I could not put a couple of large holes in him. In retrospect I am happy I didn't. We were both young and he was the more stupid of the two......but just barely. ;)

Later in my career I received the training I was so lacking in the first encounter. Theretofore acting on instinct more than logic I'm sure my reaction, like most peoples, was to attempt to remove myself as far as possible from the threat...the knife. No real plan per se. Just get the Hell back as far as possible. I was a little skeptical when the instuctor informed us that we wanted to get as close as possible to the threat....the person and the knife. But after a few hours of training with rubber knives and watching the instuctor, who knew what he was doing, I realized that was the best defense. Get close, trap and control the arm/hand with the knife.
I hit the streets secure now in the knowledge that I was a badass in all things involving close quarters combat, able to defend myself against knife wielding bad guys, gangs of ninjas and could leap the occasional tall building. That is how I received the scar across my mid section and ruined a perfectly good uniform shirt. (At leat the department paid to replace it and the doctor that installed the sutures.)
The second encounter was much like the first, with the exception I was older and far more experienced. This time I was watching the guy and was in the process of taking action to control him when he displayed the knife. My wound was much, much more superficial than the first encounter (read: required far fewer sutures) and after the initial slash and was partially controlled due to our close proximity. And the best part was being right on top of the guy I was actually able to take control of the arm holding the knife just as trained, bring it down and away from him and take away the knife. No one witnessing all this was more amazed (or impressed ;)) than I was and, even though the thought went through my head, I resisted the impulse to do what we all say and shove it up his.......well, you know. ;)
I had already known that I was no good with a knife, should not volunteerily involve myself in a fight in which each combatant was armed with a knife and there is no substitute for having a gun at a knife fight. But I did learn a number of things from the two encounters.
One; Pay attention to what is happening around me.
Two; Even if I only suspicion someone wants to harm me act rather than react.
Three; No matter if you are armed you can not always shoot someone. Even when they are a threat to your life.
Four; Get as close as you can, forget the "person" with the knife and take serious control of the hand/arm/knife as quickly as possible. You might get cut in the process. But the alternative to not taking control of it early is yer gonna get cut repeatedly. Bes' to get as few as possible.
And last; I don't like bein' cut.

[Grayfox]

There's an old saying that rings true.

If you get involved in a knife fight, win or lose, you're gonna get cut.

[TYRVR]

Amen on both parties getting cut, when I was in Germany back in the early 60's(1960's) got into A s****e in an off limits joint, the local pulled one of those switch blades like You see in the movies and advanced towards me, I carried an old Ek parachutists knife stuck in My boot,under the blousing,I backed off A couple steps after showing I had A knife too, but He was not impressed and lunged for Me, I reaced for his knife hand like I had been taught in Judo hand to hand training and missed, His blade went into the web of My left hand, I grabbed His hand and held it long enough to rake the bottom of His forearm with My knife, the blade went right to the bone and made A "skittering" sound as I drug it around His extended arm, He jerked free but I jumped forward and grabbed His jacket at the shoulder and raked His ribs and back under His left arm, He jerked free again and ran, when I looked at My hand, His knife was still embedded in My flesh, the tip of that cheap switchblade had bent almost into A hook where it had hit the bone in My hand,hurt like Hades when I pulled it out, and bled copiously, I told my buddies that I won that encounter, but I don't think I'd like to win another,