Mosin-Nagant's-accuracy?????


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Oriondk
07-06-2008, 08:04 PM
Wow, was at the range today and three people near me were shooting Mosin's. These things must shoot minute of barn door.:P The two guys sitting next to me were shooting at 25 yards. Sheesh! I shot better groups at 50 yards with my .22. For that matter, I could shoot better groups at 100 yards with my Enfield than these guys were getting at 25. Another guy, down a few spaces on the other side of me, was shooting at 50 yards. He wasn't doing that well either. Lets just say, if he aimed at your head, you'd have a good chance of surviving.
Are these rifles really that inaccurate or are they just all shot out? Or were all three of these guys just bad shots?

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Grit
07-06-2008, 09:08 PM
Josh and Maxi have some threads out there on Mosin's. Probably quite a bit of information, too.

missing montana
07-06-2008, 09:21 PM
Gotta tell ya these guys most likely cannot shoot period. I have 5 Mosins and one I made into a varminet gun that shoots 4 shot inside a quarter with 8 inside a half dollar at 100 yards. My son in-law shot 3 inside a dime at 110 yards (he's a cop) go figure! I will try to post his target sometime soon. Mosins are not all bad and can acheive a good group with some work!

george parsons
07-06-2008, 10:17 PM
most of them have had corrosive ammo in them since the day they were born....subract one for accuracy....almost all of them are used...full metal jacket corrosive ammo takes quite a toll....subract one more for accuracy....finding a good load in them is rough....i have reloaded them for about two years and have yet to find a good load....i have a couple that come oh so close but nothing to write to yall about.


so to answer your question yep...they are pretty much shot out.but i still love each and every one of them....long barrel or carbine model.

Jaypee
07-06-2008, 10:20 PM
Gotta tell ya these guys most likely cannot shoot period. I have 5 Mosins and one I made into a varminet gun that shoots 4 shot inside a quarter with 8 inside a half dollar at 100 yards. My son in-law shot 3 inside a dime at 110 yards (he's a cop) go figure! I will try to post his target sometime soon. Mosins are not all bad and can acheive a good group with some work!

You didn't say if these folks were shooting M38 or M44 carbines or M91/30 rifles. The carbines usually lack the target accuracy of the long rifles and the M44 needs to have its bayonet extended to give its best accuracy. They sometimes shoot amazingly well, but the average 91/30 usually shoots better than the average M44 at ranges of 100 yards or more.

I've owned five M91/30's and worked on several more. I've never seen one yet that wouldn't give sub two inch bench rest groups at 100 yards with Czech Light Ball ammo providing it had a decent bore and was bedded correctly. Here is a picture of two groups I shot from the bench at 100 yards with a 1935 Tula hexagonal receiver M91/30. The group in the white slip measures 1 3/4", while the one in the black measures 1 7/8. I had a 1 1/4" group going and developed "fifthshotitis" and threw the fifth shot away.

Here's the photo:
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj314/jaypee3843/PICT0015.jpg
One thing to consider in buying a Mosin these days is that the ones coming into the country now are not in as good condition as in the past and some have bores that look like muddy wagon ruts in a dirt road, they're beat to pieces, and many have serious bedding problems. So you want to give them a really good inspection before buying one. Given a shot-out bore, they would shoot as poorly as you describe. I'm assuming the folks you describe were bench resting their rifles, because if they were shooting them offhand all bets are off. Hope this helps.

Oriondk
07-06-2008, 11:04 PM
You didn't say if these folks were shooting M38 or M44 carbines or M91/30 rifles. The carbines usually lack the target accuracy of the long rifles and the M44 needs to have its bayonet extended to give its best accuracy. They sometimes shoot amazingly well, but the average 91/30 usually shoots better than the average M44 at ranges of 100 yards or more.

I've owned five M91/30's and worked on several more. I've never seen one yet that wouldn't give sub two inch bench rest groups at 100 yards with Czech Light Ball ammo providing it had a decent bore and was bedded correctly. Here is a picture of two groups I shot from the bench at 100 yards with a 1935 Tula hexagonal receiver M91/30. The group in the white slip measures 1 3/4", while the one in the black measures 1 7/8. I had a 1 1/4" group going and developed "fifthshotitis" and threw the fifth shot away.

Here's the photo:
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj314/jaypee3843/PICT0015.jpg
One thing to consider in buying a Mosin these days is that the ones coming into the country now are not in as good condition as in the past and some have bores that look like muddy wagon ruts in a dirt road, they're beat to pieces, and many have serious bedding problems. So you want to give them a really good inspection before buying one. Given a shot-out bore, they would shoot as poorly as you describe. I'm assuming the folks you describe were bench resting their rifles, because if they were shooting them offhand all bets are off. Hope this helps.

Two were shooting rifles and one a carbine, not sure of the model. I'm not really interested in getting one, I was just amazed had the poor accuracy. They were all benched, btw. Watching one of the guys with a rifle, he would pull the gun off the rest, tilt it back, muzzle all most straight up, to work the bolt. I don't think he was very experienced.;)

EssPete
07-07-2008, 02:04 AM
could have also been dirty as hell to need to pull the bolt back that way

Oriondk
07-07-2008, 02:28 AM
could have also been dirty as hell to need to pull the bolt back that way

It came back easily enough. I'm not sure what he was doing.

maxiball
07-07-2008, 10:04 AM
A few weeks ago, jest for grins, I bught a M-44, 1945 made and unissued.
The bore was as new as it should have been.
I don't like the sights worth a hoot but i still managed to plunk 5 shots under 1.5 inches at 50 yards from a bench,
This with reloads using .311 bullets intended for the Enfield and jap rifles.
The good one will shoot.
I had a long rifle with a bore that looked like a sewer pipe.
It shot like a rifle with a bore that looked like a sewer pipe too.
3 inches at 50 was one of the better groups.
Also misurp ammo is aweful.
I've pulled the bullets and found the are .308 and vary as much as 5 grains each.
Fed good ammoe through good bore and they behave well enough to poke a groundhog at 100 or perhaps make a good pic up truck gun or spare rifle on a hunt.

Doug Bowser
09-14-2008, 08:06 AM
I have shot all manner and models of Moisin Nagant rifles. I find the Finn rifles to be superior shooters in most instances. I have a SAKO M39 with mint bore. It shoots Sierra .311 150 gr bullets very well. It really likes .309" Lapua D46 bullets. The accuracy level for 10 shots from double sandbags at 100 yards is 1.5".

Believe it or not, it shoots Bulgarian light ball just about the same.

Doug Bowser

Oriondk
09-14-2008, 01:46 PM
I have shot all manner and models of Moisin Nagant rifles. I find the Finn rifles to be superior shooters in most instances. I have a SAKO M39 with mint bore. It shoots Sierra .311 150 gr bullets very well. It really likes .309" Lapua D46 bullets. The accuracy level for 10 shots from double sandbags at 100 yards is 1.5".

Believe it or not, it shoots Bulgarian light ball just about the same.

Doug Bowser

Yeah, Popeye had one at the shop and was telling me they were much better rifles than the Russian's. 1.5" sounds pretty dang impressive considering what I've seen shot with the others.:up:

zeke
09-20-2008, 08:31 AM
Recently got 2 Mosins 91/30s. Instead of ordering one, went to stores and picked them from the rack. At 2 different stores , found one with nice looking bore. Whern i first tried shooting one with new Wolf cheapo rounds, was quite disappointed. Then figured out the stocks needed screwed down tight and now am of belief they were deliberatly loosened after they were rebuilt. The sights also needed some serious adjustment, as they both hit almost 10 inches high and several inchs right at 100 yards. Bought some light Russian ball and Privi 182 grain fmjbt from AIM.

One does especially well with the light ball. The 1938 Tula with round receiver and lightening cuts is the nicer finished of the 2. If scoped, would be betting it is easily 1.5 inch accurate at 100.

For about $110 apiece, am very pleased with them as fun range guns. Surplus rounds are relatively cheap.

glh630
11-12-2008, 06:41 PM
I'm a little late on this reply---BUT I've bought 5 of the critters, two iss's and three tula's. I have 2 91/30's,one M-44 and 2 M-38s. When I bought them, I went to the store with a bore light and a pull through and checked about 30 of them. did this one and two at a time. Maybe it's just luck but all five will put 5 shots in a quarter at 100yds. I did use a small jewelers file on the rear sight notch and squared it up with a full front sight width on both sides of the blade. Not worried one bit with modifying the weapon. no damn good if you can't hit with it. Plus you can always replace the rear sight blade. thinking about going with Wolf spings to lighten the firing pin and cocking plus installing a Huber ball trigger. Now, there, I would save the original parts so that should I ever sell,trade or give them away--they will go with the original rifle. Just my two pennies:)) OH YEA--- I all so put a lace on boot with a decelerator pad plus a lace on cheek pad on one of my M-38's. LOVE those mosin's, especially that one M-38 with pads--I'm getting kinda old with the 'Sidous Brothers. does it mean pms when I have to use pads?:down: LOL:D

Fuelburns1
11-12-2008, 08:17 PM
My 91/30 is very accurate even compared to my modern rifles. It is in very good condition though.

Popeye
11-13-2008, 12:30 AM
If you want an accurate Mosin Nagant rifle, get a Finn M39, or M29, or M27.

Doug Bowser
11-13-2008, 03:24 AM
If you want an accurate Mosin Nagant rifle, get a Finn M39, or M29, or M27.

dON'T FORGET THE 28/30. tHEY ARE PROBABLY THE MOST ACCURATE MN RIFLES. tHE REASON FOR THIS IS, the bore diameter is .3082" and more compatable with our .308" bullets. When loaded with .311" Sierra 150's the Finn Moisins are usually very accurate.

Most of the trouble with Moisin Nagant rifle accuracy is the military ammunition that is usually fired in them. Most countries surplus their worst lots when offering surplus ammo.

Doug Bowser

shoey
11-13-2008, 01:10 PM
My 91/30 isnt nearly as accurate as my m38, but it may be a bore diameter issue. My m38 shoots Wolf Gold ammo very well considering my eyesight...I also installed a mojo peep rear sight on it.

kahn
11-13-2008, 04:23 PM
MY 91/30 shoots 1 inch groups at 100 yds all day long with polish silver tip but isn't that good with Bulgarian light or any heavy ball. My m44 couldn't hit a barn a 100 yds.

Bren
11-15-2008, 07:43 PM
My Polish M-44 will chew one hole at 50 yards with Albanian surplus. Good enough for a $75 rifle!

LJN
12-02-2009, 08:43 PM
Check this out!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDIypxgwzXs

bluedlightning
12-02-2009, 09:43 PM
The big problem with Mosin-Nagant accuracy is bore diameter. Standard was .311 but some people have measured .318 in some WW2 mil sup rifles! If you reload either slug your barrel or make a bore cast to verrify bore diameter then reload accrodingly.

bigfootbob
12-02-2009, 09:56 PM
This is an old thread...

One of the most famous soviet snipers, Vasily Grigoryevich Zaitsev (225 confirmed kills), and the other snipers used standard Mosin-Nagants.

ant67
12-03-2009, 08:48 AM
i love my 1947 mosin m44 ,i can hit the target ,time and time again at 1000mts with open sights,im 5.7 tall so is little rifle is great for me:D:up:

budroe
12-03-2009, 12:03 PM
I was given a M39 a few years back along with two sardine can type battle packs that held maybe a couple hundred rounds each. I thought the rifle was plenty accurate for a military surplus gun. The barrel and action were in excellent condition. I shot a few 100 yard groups with it, no doubt with the right ammo it would be a decent deer gun. I thought it was the loudest rifle I'd ever fired, and mine kicked like a mule for the caliber. I had a friend who was short on funds but needed a reliable rifle for his place. I gave the rifle and ammo to him. He liked it and still has it. I think some guys buy these guns because they're cheap (relatively speaking, at least). They're more gun than they're used to, they shoot a few rounds and start flinching from the noise and recoil. That's why they are easy to find on the used gun market. Do your part and the gun will probably respond in kind.

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