[gmcfixer]

Hey folks, just wanted to see what you guys think is important on doing a tune up on 1911 pistols. Now I do have two classes of tune ups I do, one for newer guns (usually the budget models) and then on worn guns. So when you do a tune up on a 1911 what do you do?

New guns:

Inspect and deburr - many guns have machining flaws and yes they do get past QC
Clean & polish chamber - I also open the throat of the chamber if needed. Keep in mind ONLY the outer edges need be worked on. The chamber normally doesn't need any material removed and thats what supports the case ...... DONT REMOVE MATERIAL INSIDE! Polish the outside of the barrel where the barrel bushing rides while your at it, when deburring you should have already checked the inside of the barrel bushing where it rides on the barrel. Most any full sized 1911 should feed any ammo you put in it.
Polish the breach face - You would be surprized how many guns have a poorly finished breach face.
Tune Extractor - poor misunderstood extractors, I've seen guys cut deep grooves in them thinking thats all that needs to be done when extractor tension is much more important. Some cheap aftermarket extractors might need reshaping and frequintly they have burrs in them too. Remove the burrs, polish it and adjust the tension ..... keep in mind the tension doesn't mean as tight as you can get it. If you have a tension gauge it only needs about 5 to 6 pounds of tension.
Lower and Flair the ejection port - If the shooter is a reloader and they want to have the gun refinished once I'm done I'll do this. Keep in mind, a 1911 45ACP doesn't need this if you don't save your brass to reload. It also doesn't have to be way low either, an important part is make certain you blend it inside the port to so as not to leave a squared edge. Squared edges inside the port tend to crack.
Inspect and adjust internal frame components - this is best left to the experienced. Some of what I do is polish the disconnector & sides of the hammer and sear. This is not a trigger job, don't jack with the angles and don't adjust the tension of the spring unless there is something wrong. Dis-assemble the mainspring housing and check for burrs inside it and on the cap. I have found numerous caps with scratches on them from a burr inside the housing and I've found this on many different makes of 1911s. Its OK to polish the trigger tunnel and make certain the trigger bow fits correctly, but unless you know what you are doing don't jack with the bow.
Barrel lugs - Check the barrel lugs where it locks up, deburr but do now take a bunch of material off unless you feel like changing the barrel for no reason. If the barrel lugs are OK then a little polishing can be done but isn't always needed.

Worn guns: do everything above for the new guns and then add -

Springs - Replace any worn springs, don't just give them a tug.
Barrel link - Check the fit of the barrel and check the barrel link. If there is a problem here it needs more than a tune up.

As far as tune-ups that covers most everything. Something to make sure of is when someone gives you the gun to do a tune-up on it needs to be cleaned and oiled first. You can't properly check the gun if its dirty. Check the operation of the safeties ALWAYS before you even disassembly the gun. Check the strike of the firing pin for both location on the primer and how heavy it is. If you can test fire before and after this is a good thing. I try to insist on it.

I have two different guns lined up to tune up for co-workers. One is a Rock Island gun, he has had some feeding problems but other than that it is fine. Just over 500 rounds through the gun. The second is a Kimber Pro Carry II that he wants to be able to feed more than ball ammo. Just as with the Rock Island gun it has just over 500 rounds through it. Chances are the Kimber won't need much done to it.

So just thought this might be a good subject to discuss, what do you guys think?

Dave Z

[si6]

Good info Dave
Thanks

[Sir Knight]

Very good info :up: Thanks :)

[Joe B.]

My Taurus PT1911 is nice and tight except for the bushing. It is tight enough on the barrel but loose in the slide. I had a spare bushing that was just as loose so I built it up the OD with some JB Weld and then carefully filed it down to just fit back firmly in the slide. Just a temporary check to see if an over size bushing fitted to it would improve accuracy.

With the loose bushing it gives nice round 8rd groups averaging about 2 1/2 to 3" at 25 yards at point of aim, from field rest, not bench rest. I feel it is adequate accuracy for my needs, but might be easily improved a bit. But the tight bushing gives me vertical stringing of about 4 inches and a group width of about 1 1/2 to 2". Is there an easy inexpensive cure for the vertical stringing that would make it worthwhile to have an oversize bushing fitted? I am not concerned with competition accuracy or spending a lot for small gains, so for now I put the factory bushing back in it and enjoy it as it is.

Joe B.

[gmcfixer]

My Taurus PT1911 is nice and tight except for the bushing. It is tight enough on the barrel but loose in the slide. I had a spare bushing that was just as loose so I built it up the OD with some JB Weld and then carefully filed it down to just fit back firmly in the slide. Just a temporary check to see if an over size bushing fitted to it would improve accuracy.

With the loose bushing it gives nice round 8rd groups averaging about 2 1/2 to 3" at 25 yards at point of aim, from field rest, not bench rest. I feel it is adequate accuracy for my needs, but might be easily improved a bit. But the tight bushing gives me vertical stringing of about 4 inches and a group width of about 1 1/2 to 2". Is there an easy inexpensive cure for the vertical stringing that would make it worthwhile to have an oversize bushing fitted? I am not concerned with competition accuracy or spending a lot for small gains, so for now I put the factory bushing back in it and enjoy it as it is.

Joe B.

I don't know about Taurus as far as waranty goes but my guess is they will say the groups are acceptable so sending it back to Taurus may be fruitless.

As to a fix, best bet as long as the barrel link is the correct length is to fit an oversized bushing to it. Really this is one of those cases where not being able to see the gun first hand makes it tough to diagnosis. Something you can do is if you know anyone with a Series 70 Colt with a collet bushing try the collet bushing to test it. If the groups stablize then fitting the oversized bushing should do the trick, just keep in mind this is in general and without handling the gun its hard to say with certainty.

Dave Z

[Joe B.]

I ordered a Cyl & Slide oversize bushing. And according to my measurements with a caliper, it will need little if any fitting to the slide, that is how loose the factory bushing was. New bushing OD is .707" and I read .710 in the slide ID. Either tooling or machine settings got sloppy at the factory. The stock bushing would wiggle up and down or side to side in place about .020". As well as it shoots, the only reason I am worried about it, as being that loose the tiny locking spur on the bushing is taking a lot of stress at about half of its engagement. I am afraid it will shear off letting the gun come apart in firing. This is something I will definitely watch for in future 1911 purchases, any brand.

The bushing ID as listed will give about .002" clearance to barrel end. How much clearance are they suppose to have? The end of the barrel has a slightly raised portion about 3/8" wide then drops to a slightly smaller diameter on the rest of the barrel.

[gmcfixer]

As well as it shoots, the only reason I am worried about it, as being that loose the tiny locking spur on the bushing is taking a lot of stress at about half of its engagement. I am afraid it will shear off letting the gun come apart in firing.

Seriously I don't think I have ever seen the lug on the bushing shear off. Even on some old well worn GI guns. If the bushing has that much play I don't blame you for wanting to replace it. C&S is a good company so you should be happy with their product.

Joe not having handled the gun I can't tell you your concerns are founded or not. Just curious, has anyone else seen the lug on the bushing shear off?

Dave Z

[lookingforthewayback]

Dave, thanks for the great info.

[Williamlayton]

This good conversation.
It really depends on how anal you are about parts. I am pretty anal---on a chart of 1 to 10 I am about an 8/9.
I do ot do my own Smithing--for several reasons.
I like quality ejectors (thanx for the heads-up)--extended. Good springs. Good ignition parts. good bushings.
I like short GI triggers and a good trigger job.
Grip safeties are, a lot of times, plastic and Colt uses this almost exclusively. They are fine and will hold up as long as metal---but---My anal nature shows up here---I like a good arched mainspring housing of metal.:P
I also like lowering and flaring.
In the last 10 years or so, I can't recall but three purchases that did not visit a Smith before I shot it.
That, in no way, means it was an unworthy gun--out of the box--it just means that I am pretty stupid for being this anal.
Blessings

[gmcfixer]

Folks Bill has a very good point. Any MIM or plastic parts on the gun, this is a good time to think about changing them. Any poorly fitted parts of course you want to replace. Now of course that also depends on what the guy that owns the gun wants when your working on a gun for somebody else.

Bill you did mention extended extractor (I think you meant ejector) and that is one of those thing that I have to see how the gun shoots before I making a change. In general ( I stress this is a generalization) 5" guns don't need them, shorter barreled guns have a shorter recoil stroke (the distance that the slide travel back during recoil) and sometimes need it to prevent stovepipes. But, with extended ejectors you need a lowered and flared ejection port and it does sometime make it harder to eject a live round till that's done. I had one fellows gun that had a extended ejector and he didn't want to refinish the gun so he didn't want to change the port. Yet it always failed to eject live rounds and sometimes fired brass, he had a big name smith install the extended ejector along with some other bolt on parts and it didn't work correctly. The fellows biggest reason for the ejector was he didn't like brass coming back at him. Well, I finally got him to let me trim the ejector to a reasonable length and it ejected the brass when firing pretty close to directly to his right which I'm sure at an open range ticked off the folks next to him. But it would not eject all live ammo still (the SWCs the guy loaded still didn't hand eject) so he removes his magazine and ejects the live round through the magazine well. He's said if he decides to refinish the gun that he wants me to lower and flare the ejection port ..... thing is he is going to have to bring the gun to me because I don't live down near Fort Worth anymore!

Once again Good point and good post Bill!

Dave Z

[XD45]

Good post Dave! I always like to shoot any new (or new to me) gun to see how it runs before doing any work. I don't have any 1911s new enough to have plastic or MIM parts on them! I did replace 90% of the parts on my Norinco 1911 with GI parts just for the heck of it. I've been very lucky in that my 1911s all seem to behave without any fiddling. All of my current ones are Colts, except for the Norinco.

[Joe B.]

I installed the Oversize bushing that as i stated was still a drop in inside the slide, snug but by no means tight. I honed the ID until I got smooth slide movement. I only got a quick and dirty two mag test at 21 feet before light failed after work this evening. Again as with the previous attempts to tighten it up I get vertical stringing.
I beleive that I am dealing with a slightly too long barrel link, that is causing the stringing.

Function was perfect through the two magazines, 16 rounds. All that slop is gone at the barrel. I think I will give it a few hundred rounds to settle in before I worry about the stringing to much, unless someone affirms my opinion of the link and the excessive cam over I seem to feel until I reached a certain clearance in the bushing ID.

I plan on going out to my place in Oklahoma this weekend and target shoot a bit and will see how it does.
Joe B.

[Williamlayton]

We are blessed with some really fantastic gun parts these days.
We are blessed with some really fantastic Gunsmiths these day.
In my anal mind, it is hard too resist putting the two together.
Blessings

[Joe B.]

We are blessed with some really fantastic gun parts these days.
We are blessed with some really fantastic Gunsmiths these day.
In my anal mind, it is hard too resist putting the two together.
BlessingsAh, but if I didn't have the fun or working on them myself I wouldn't bother buying them. Tinkering on my own and building project guns is my favorite learning process and hobby. I have yet to need a smith to fix a screw up, I just sometimes need to learn something new, or get confirmation on what I think I know. Someday I may need one's services but it hasn't happened in 49 years.

[Williamlayton]

Joe
You are correct and I admire you for the skill.
I don't got much of that.:P
Blessings

[38super]

In earlier times, MIM parts were shunned, Today's technology is making very good parts from the MIM process. It comes down to how the parts are spec'd. CMC and several other parts houses make quality replacement parts. If I were building a full house pistol, the selection changes, but so does the part prices. Do you drive it to the races or is it trailered.

Plastic will continue to replace components, some will be good and others a waste of time.

[Williamlayton]

38 super
I agree that the MIM parts can be as good.
In my anal state that I live in, and, since I don't know which are good--I avoid them.
Blessings

[gmcfixer]

Do you drive it to the races or is it trailered.

I've got to remember that one ....... never heard it used for this app but it fits.

Dave Z

[gmcfixer]

This is a picture of the breach face of one of the guns I mentioned belonging to a coworker that I was tuning up. This is the after picture, you could not tell anything as to the condition of the breach face in the before picture so I dumped that one.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/gmcfixer/breach001.jpg

In this image you can notice two problems which short of replacing the slide the most you can do is smooth it out and polish it up. yes I'm talking about the machine marks on the right side as you look at the picture and the pitting on the left side. This is a RIA slide with 500 rounds through it. The machine marks are the bigger of the two problems and can cause enough drag that the round will not feed all the way into the chamber and the slide generally stops about 1/4 to 1/2 inch from being in battery. Once again about all you can do with these is smooth it out or replace the slide. One guy once asked me about welding it up and remachining the breach face, I told him the cost was more than replacing the slide.

Dave Z

[Williamlayton]

Golly that is ugly. Hope I don't find anything like that in the Norinco.
It takes some real skill with tools to mess something up that bad.
Blessings

[gmcfixer]

Last Norinco I did was in good shape on the breach face and most guys I know with them didn't have that kind of problem. Don't sweat it!

Dave Z

[38super]

I've seen a few RIA slides with casting voids.

[Two Guns]

I buy Colt 1911's so all I have to do is change recoil springs every 4000 rounds.

[Williamlayton]

Golly this is a good thread.
I have to be careful about getting on my favorite soap-box on this one----It is a boring and generally overbearing soap-box.
Tune-ups are not for fun---in the sence of whop-te-do. They are fun for those who have the skills, training and patience(don't see my name here).
They make a gun into a weapon, and there is a difference.
Now, if you are playing games, it may not make any difference in anything really important.
If it is for real---and IMO that should be the desired end results of this quest---well, anything can happen but let's try and keep Murphy out as much as possible.
Blessings

[38super]

I agree, that one's maintenance skills must be beyond reproach when it come to the house gun. I believe each gun owner should have or develop the skills to maintain his/her equipment. This includes replacement of springs, common wear parts and cleaning. If one is willing to learn, this is one of the better forums to gain and expand this knowledge. I will say this, IPSC/USPSA members have been giving back to our LE and Military bretheren by teaching them the skills learned from competition. Personally, I'd rather use my racegun for house clearing than any issue sidearm. Tough on the ears tho.

[Williamlayton]

38
Don't you think that the race gun/business gun have many of the same things in common-----with the exception of cosmetics and the race gun being lighter and more for speed?
Blessings

[38super]

Yes, 1000%. Certainly a racegun is tailored for the user, speed and accuracy. Shouldn't that chunk of steel in the bed stand be too? Speed is life, our propulsion cohorts have a saying 'In thrust we trust.' I see no reason to handicap the defense of life and loved ones. I want that tool to speak as fast as I ask and for its effect to be accurate and devastating. For the rest of you that are watching, don't jump into this without a backup. Have fallback equipment if you decide to experiment. I am lucky to have a mentor who feeds me key info, his timing is impecable. Your equipment should evolve as you gain skills. Robby Leatham can make a bone stock 1911 sing, not all of us can afford to burn 50,000 rounds a year.

[gmcfixer]

Gotta agree with 38super, and yes Bill they have a lot in common. I even once made the comment that if I could conceal a race gun that is what I would carry. While I did not get to the level of Leatham and the likes and shot 50K rounds annually I did shoot half that when I was competing. If I'm a hostage in a hostage situation I want someone with accuracy and speed coming through the doors to save my backside. I want to see the perp dead before he (or she for that matter) knew what happened.

Dave Z

[38super]

Well, there is a caveat about going fast. Not everyone is as gifted as AJ Foyt or Mario Andretti, know your limits. Disaster factor will loom large.