[Magnum Force]

i went shooting yesterday, and stopped by walmart to get some ammo (luckily they had a bunch of 40 in stock).

it was the federal champion brand, and they just went up $2 on the price! it used to be $11.97 and is now $13.97. only being a dollar less than they charge for 45acp ammo!

i am now considering selling all my 40cals, and just sticking with 9mm and 45acp, as i don't see the point in paying the same price for 40 as 45. i like the 45acp better anyway. and 9mm is still markedly cheaper.

what do you guys think? :)

[twmccloskey]

I reload most everything but 22 rim-fire. I load pistol ammunition one or two thousand at a time, so I won't need to do that again for while. The initial investment in brass can be a bit much, but it can be loaded a bunch of times.

Interesting choice of what to keep, I own one 9mm, everything else has a 4 in its caliber. I tried to find a Smith model 57 the other day, it is a 41 mag, it looks a lot like my 44 specials..but the brass was cheap.

Tom

[gunfan]

If you have a handgun that shoots the .40 S&W it is worth it. I would readily purchase it for use in my S&W Model 610. If you have a 10mm, you can purchase a .40 S&W Barrel and either use a lighter recoil spring (for reduced loads).

It all depends upon your needs.

Scott

[BigSwede]

I guess if you can shoot .45 comfortably and there is not much of a premium for the ammo compared to .40, then there is not much reason for the .40. Up to you, really. I wouldn't sell the .40s unless you can get good value for them, though.

[Popeye]

I don't think too much of the .40 S&W pistol caliber.

[lookingforthewayback]

I don't have much use for the 40 either, I would buy a 45 instead of the 40 but not sure I would get rid of it if you enjoy shooting it. Is it your carry gun? Like Tom I reload all of mine so cost changes for the various calibers doesn't affect me all that much. If I enjoy shooting it I keep it, if not it is gone.

[Joe B.]

I sure wouldn't sell off any of my guns over $2 difference in ammo cost. Big deal.

[lookingforthewayback]

Right now if you don't reload then availability may be more important then just about anything else. Doesn't matter how effective a round is if you can't get any and you have to use the gun as a club. The more options you have the more likely you are to find some ammo for at least one of your guns.

[DWARREN123]

Yes it is still worth it but not for everyone.

[twmccloskey]

I don't think too much of the .40 S&W pistol caliber.


Popeye;

If you do the math, the 40 S&W is equal to the 45 ACP. It will stop...so what's your complaint?

Tom

[Popeye]

The .40 S&W runs at ridiculously high pressures. It has sharp recoil when the caliber and projectile weights are considered. Its almost as good as the .45 ACP. Its almost as good as the .357 Magnum.

[bluedlightning]

Why not split the difference between the 40 S&W and the 45 ACP by using the 400 corbon. Its a necked down 45 acp brass to 40 cal. You get 10mm performance at 45 acp preasures and uses the same mags and recoil springs as the 45. Looking to get a barrel for my norinco 1911a1 to shoot the 400 corbon. Anyone here have any experience with it?

[budroe]

Where I live .45acp costs more than $2/box more than .40S&W. I'm not getting rid of my model 23. It does everything I want it to.

[Sir Knight]

What I like about the forty is that in most configurations, you get almost 50% more rounds in the forty than in the forty-five (Sig220=8 vs Sig229=12 ; M&P45=10 vs M&P40=15 ; etc.). Round for round, the forty-five has the edge but when you consider the extra ammo, I think that it gives the edge to the forty.

[Magnum Force]

What I like about the forty is that in most configurations, you get almost 50% more rounds in the forty than in the forty-five (Sig220=8 vs Sig229=12 ; M&P45=10 vs M&P40=15 ; etc.). Round for round, the forty-five has the edge but when you consider the extra ammo, I think that it gives the edge to the forty.

true, the 40cal definitely has the edge when it comes to capacity. that's why i think it's great round for law enforcement. it packs a bit more punch than the 9mm, and offers the same capacity in most cases.

for civilians though (at least for me), we don't encounter the same persistent threats that cops do. chances are that i'll never have to use a gun to defend my life, and if i do, 1-3 shots will subdue the threat. (especially at the usual "conflict range" of less than 7 yards).

a lot of fellow civilian friends of mine seem to think they will surely be killed if they are mugged and don't have 16 rounds of 40 or 9 to protect themselves. i think they watched the lethal weapon movies too many times lol.

i feel totally comfortable carrying my 8 shot champion operator 1911 for personal defense. :)

[twmccloskey]

The .40 S&W runs at ridiculously high pressures. It has sharp recoil when the caliber and projectile weights are considered. Its almost as good as the .45 ACP. Its almost as good as the .357 Magnum.

Popeye:

If you do the energy math, weight x speed the 40 S&W will equal or exceed the 45ACP. I was so set against the switch to the "40" from the 45, the range folks spent about an hour selling the thing to me.

Felt recoil is a personal thing a 357 mag load makes my hand and teeth hurt..( cleaned up from a Marine expression)

My Sig 229 has 13 rounds, hides well, is accurate, I do not recall it ever malfunctioning, accuracy is more than I need, I am very comfortable carrying this pistol...

It is really a matter of personal taste, I do not shoot things that hurt my hand. As to round capacity, I no longer carry a second clip, worry about the speed of my reloads. The large cap clip is for multiple assulters, it is better to have ammunition and not need it, than to need and not have.

I carry mt Para Companion most of the time, it is seven shots double action only, with an extra clip in my back left pocket, I learned that reload drill long ago.

Tom

[Mousegunner]

I like the 40S&W because it is most always available at WalMart, when 9mm and 45 ACP are not to be found.

[Old John]

I'll stick with my old .45's. They are what I have. They work very well.
And, I am content with them. The 45's & my .357's cover all I need.
Thanks.

[Sir Knight]

My Sig 229 has 13 rounds, hides well, is accurate, I do not recall it ever malfunctioning, accuracy is more than I need, I am very comfortable carrying this pistol...

...

I carry mt Para Companion most of the time, it is seven shots double action only, with an extra clip in my back left pocket, I learned that reload drill long ago.It appears that we have a couple of guns in commom ;)

[shoey]

The energy arguement is valid, however, we see it at odds all over the place. Look at dangerous game rifles, for instance. While a lot of the high powered rifles carry a lot more energy with relatively smaller bullets driven at a lot higher velocities, the big, slow bullets are still the overwhelming prference for knockdown and stopping power. The higher caliber bullet just seems to hit harder.

[Sir Knight]

I really like these pictures because the images speaks for themselves ...

http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5153&d=1139142614

... remember that the more flesh that is displaced, the greater damage is done to the body and the more effective the bullet is in stopping an attack ...

http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5152&d=1139142496

NOTE: Photos are not mine but have been floating around the web for a while

[Magnum Force]

The energy arguement is valid, however, we see it at odds all over the place. Look at dangerous game rifles, for instance. While a lot of the high powered rifles carry a lot more energy with relatively smaller bullets driven at a lot higher velocities, the big, slow bullets are still the overwhelming prference for knockdown and stopping power. The higher caliber bullet just seems to hit harder.


yep i agree on this issue when it comes to pistols too.

a lot of folk like the 147grn 9mm's, but i'm not a fan of them. the 9mm bullet isn't big enough to have much knockdown power at subsonic velocities.

they say they like the 147grn's jhp's penetration capability, but the 124grn & and 115grn jhp's penetrate enough for me-and deliver more energy!

for 45acp-i like the 230grn standard pressure jhp's.

for 40cal-i have some 165grn federal HST's. great performers in that caliber.

but like i said, i'll might just sell my 40cal's and buy another 1911 or 9mm....

[Magnum Force]

http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5152&d=1139142496

NOTE: Photos are not mine but have been floating around the web for a while[/QUOTE]

the 45 jhp's in this pic are the ranger talons that i have-good stuff :D (i've seen them site that pic's from)

[Sir Knight]

I like Rangers the best but they are sometimes hard to come by. Second choice goes to GoldDots. Then Hornady. Normally don't bother with the rest any more if I have a choice in the matter.

[Magnum Force]

I like Rangers the best but they are sometimes hard to come by. Second choice goes to GoldDots. Then Hornady. Normally don't bother with the rest any more if I have a choice in the matter.

i lucked out on the 45acp ranger talons-my local shop got a bunch of RA45T in stock -50 round boxes for $39.99 each. not a bad deal. wish i bought more than one box though.....

[lookingforthewayback]

I use federal HSTs 147gr 9MM and 230 gr 45ACP, but they are really hard to find. They open up very similar to the talons, very nasty.

[budroe]

I think a better question would be to ask now that the .40 is available is the 9mm a valid choice. The .40 is available in the same sized handguns as the 9mm. The glock 23 holds 3 rounds less than the glock 19. I see no advantage to cheap military 9mm ammo; for one thing - there's not any cheap 9mm military ammo floating around these days. With the majority of American LEO's going to the .40 there will always be readily available premium ammo produced for that round. I have plenty of 9mm ammo squirrelled away. If I was starting out right now, I'd skp the 9mm altogether and go straight to the .40 or .45acp. I like the Winchester Ranger ammo, the gold dots or Federal hydra-shoks.

[Magnum Force]

I think a better question would be to ask now that the .40 is available is the 9mm a valid choice. The .40 is available in the same sized handguns as the 9mm. The glock 23 holds 3 rounds less than the glock 19. I see no advantage to cheap military 9mm ammo; for one thing - there's not any cheap 9mm military ammo floating around these days. With the majority of American LEO's going to the .40 there will always be readily available premium ammo produced for that round. I have plenty of 9mm ammo squirrelled away. If I was starting out right now, I'd skp the 9mm altogether and go straight to the .40 or .45acp. I like the Winchester Ranger ammo, the gold dots or Federal hydra-shoks.


you know, for the longest time i haven't seen any cheap surplus military 9mm. now all of a sudden, there's this cheap pakistani surplus 9mm all around town in my area. it's surprisingly accurate too....

[Sir Knight]

I think a better question would be to ask now that the .40 is available is the 9mm a valid choice. The .40 is available in the same sized handguns as the 9mm. The glock 23 holds 3 rounds less than the glock 19. I see no advantage to cheap military 9mm ammo; for one thing - there's not any cheap 9mm military ammo floating around these days. With the majority of American LEO's going to the .40 there will always be readily available premium ammo produced for that round. I have plenty of 9mm ammo squirrelled away. If I was starting out right now, I'd skp the 9mm altogether and go straight to the .40 or .45acp. I like the Winchester Ranger ammo, the gold dots or Federal hydra-shoks.Any new 9mm's that I buy are either subcompact/pocketgun in size ... my Kahr PM9 (yes, I know that there is a PM40 but that has been too much recoil in such a small package and adversely affects recoil while that is not the case in the 9mm), my Colt Pocket Nine, Rohrbaugh R9, etc. Anything larger is now purchased in a forty -- I do this for exactly the reasons mentioned.

[PreserveFreedom]

for civilians though (at least for me), we don't encounter the same persistent threats that cops do. chances are that i'll never have to use a gun to defend my life, and if i do, 1-3 shots will subdue the threat. (especially at the usual "conflict range" of less than 7 yards).

Since you have to buy a whole box anyway, why not carry as much from that box as you can? :)

[lookingforthewayback]

If I get in a gunfight as a civilian that requires me to go to a second magazine or use a majority of my first magazine I am probaly somewhere I had no business being. I do carry a 9 with 1/15, a second mag with 15 and a P3AT with 2 6 rd mags. I doubt I will ever need the first one but I have them if it goes to hell in a hand basket. I do train every week like it will happen.

[Magnum Force]

Since you have to buy a whole box anyway, why not carry as much from that box as you can? :)


well that gets a little heavy after a while :D

i feel fine carrying an 8 shot 1911, generally don't have backup mags either (i'm not expecting to be accosted by a squad of terrorists like in the movies lol)

[Blueridge]

I think a better question would be to ask now that the .40 is available is the 9mm a valid choice. The .40 is available in the same sized handguns as the 9mm. The glock 23 holds 3 rounds less than the glock 19. I see no advantage to cheap military 9mm ammo; for one thing - there's not any cheap 9mm military ammo floating around these days. With the majority of American LEO's going to the .40 there will always be readily available premium ammo produced for that round. I have plenty of 9mm ammo squirrelled away. If I was starting out right now, I'd skp the 9mm altogether and go straight to the .40 or .45acp. I like the Winchester Ranger ammo, the gold dots or Federal hydra-shoks.

I'm not seeing the majority of LEO's going to .40, but to .45 ACP. The S&W M&P's are the handguns I see being chosen in that caliber. Maybe it is quite different around where you are.

[Blueridge]

well that gets a little heavy after a while :D

i feel fine carrying an 8 shot 1911, generally don't have backup mags either (i'm not expecting to be accosted by a squad of terrorists like in the movies lol)

When I am carrying, I have at least a spare magazine for whatever I have with me. You never know when something can go wrong and you need the second magazine. Eight shots is great, but some situations don't lend themselves to only needing one magazine.

[Popeye]

Boy, do I ever feel inadequate! I carry a J frame revolver.

[Magnum Force]

Boy, do I ever feel inadequate! I carry a J frame revolver.


uh oh-only 5 shots! you'll surely be killed when when the south african drug lords swoop in on helicopters to shoot up your trailer! ;)

[Popeye]

uh oh-only 5 shots! you'll surely be killed when when the south african drug lords swoop in on helicopters to shoot up your trailer! ;)

Guess that's a chance I'll have to take.

[Williamlayton]

And the beat goes on.
Capacity and power are not the same thing.
I own a .40 in a Sig 239--and I have the .357 barrel. I much prefer the shooting of the .357Sig too the .40--the recoil is remarkedly different.
I don't have much of a prefrence over a lot of ammo verses 8.
The .45 is a better rond for stopping--wheather it kills or not.
Now i like the .38 super or 9x23 much better that the .357Sig or the .40--lets compare capacity now.
Blessings

[Magnum Force]

And the beat goes on.
Capacity and power are not the same thing.
I own a .40 in a Sig 239--and I have the .357 barrel. I much prefer the shooting of the .357Sig too the .40--the recoil is remarkedly different.
I don't have much of a prefrence over a lot of ammo verses 8.
The .45 is a better rond for stopping--wheather it kills or not.
Now i like the .38 super or 9x23 much better that the .357Sig or the .40--lets compare capacity now.
Blessings


does the 357sig have less muzzle flip than 40? is it less snappy?

[Williamlayton]

IMO
The .40 is a much heavier recoil and the .357Sig is more snappy.
I control the Sig easier and quicker.
That is just me---opinions vary--do it for yourownself.
Blessings

[budroe]

I don't know of any majore LEO agencies who have switched to the .45acp lately. I do know that many cops who have the choice carry the .45. In Houston, if you were qualified with the .45 prior to them making the .40 the duty caliber you can still carry that weapon - that also goes for .38 special, .357 and 9mm (and I think the .45 Colt, .41 and .44 magnums are also grandfathered in).

[Magnum Force]

I don't know of any majore LEO agencies who have switched to the .45acp lately. I do know that many cops who have the choice carry the .45. In Houston, if you were qualified with the .45 prior to them making the .40 the duty caliber you can still carry that weapon - that also goes for .38 special, .357 and 9mm (and I think the .45 Colt, .41 and .44 magnums are also grandfathered in).

quite a few have gone to s&w m&p's 45acp's recently. there's even a couple, like the GA & NY state police that have adopted glock gaps...(prob still won't say this round from oblivion though lol).

[MPB]

Mousegunner has it right. Finding 45 ammo in New Mexico is pretty darn hard & very expensive. However I have always seen 40 SW ammo at Wal-mart. Just my couple of coppers for the pot.

[lookingforthewayback]

Magnum Force - only you can decide whether the 40 is worth the money to you. What one person feels has no bearing. If you enjoy shooting it and like the guns you have keep them. If you want something else sell them and buy what you want.

[Magnum Force]

Magnum Force - only you can decide whether the 40 is worth the money to you. What one person feels has no bearing. If you enjoy shooting it and like the guns you have keep them. If you want something else sell them and buy what you want.


yep, you're right lol

i personally don't think 40cal is worth the same price as 45acp (it's a smaller bullet for cryin out loud). i like 45acp better anyway, not that the 40cal's recoil bothers me, but the 45acp is much nicer to shoot. plus i feel totally confident with 8 rounds of 45acp protecting me.

i am gonna sell mine, just not sure what i want to get. hmmm...maybe another 1911. :D

[budroe]

I don't know if its from spending so much time in the zones over the past ten years, but I admit to feeling more comfortable carrying 13 rounds of .40 over 8 or 9 rounds of .45acp, especially of I'm not carrying a reload (dumb statement - I always carry a reload). If I'm wearing jeans or slacks I also have my model 60 on my ankle. I'm not really too concerned about running into a team of terrorists (back in the States) a drug lord and his toadies or whatever. Still, there is nothing that feels quite as bad as being in a fight and holding an empty weapon. I really don't think there's a dime's worth of difference hitting someone with a .45 or a .40 (don't really feel that sure of the 9, but its probably about the same). As Lookingforthewayback said everyone has to do what they feel best with. One thing I noticed during the recent ammo drought; most anywhere I checked there was .40S&W ammo available. The same could not be said for 9mm and .45acp still seems to be in short supply, at least in South Texas. with so many police agencies carrying .40's, I think .40S&W ammo will always be more widely available than less used rounds.

[zeke]

Bought some .40 pistols simply because of all the free once fired brass available. One is a S&W 646 revolver, one a Browning high power. With the price of ammunition lately, am glad i bought em.

[Innate 1]

Lots of good points here.
Yesterday I picked up a SW 9mm owing to cost of ammo for 40 cal.
I actually got a Ruger LCP in May for my wife and haven't been able to locate much for ammo anywhere. No one seems able to explain this and the old arguments about hoarding don't make sense anymore. There's all kinds of other caliber ammo.

I've conceded. And, I dont' want to be lacking for ammo should manufacturers or some other unforseen circumstance arise. So, regardless of cost, a little of each is my new plan.

[Magnum Force]

Lots of good points here.
Yesterday I picked up a SW 9mm owing to cost of ammo for 40 cal.
I actually got a Ruger LCP in May for my wife and haven't been able to locate much for ammo anywhere. No one seems able to explain this and the old arguments about hoarding don't make sense anymore. There's all kinds of other caliber ammo.

I've conceded. And, I dont' want to be lacking for ammo should manufacturers or some other unforseen circumstance arise. So, regardless of cost, a little of each is my new plan.


yeah at the moment 380 is hard to find in a lot of areas because the manufacturers are putting out mostly 40cal at full throttle at the moment.

most guns shops in my area actually do have 380 in tock (but limit the number of boxes you can buy)

there is an abundance of 40cal in my are too (it's even at all the walmarts). some people are seeing this as a reason for keeping and buying more 40cal pistols, but this will change (the tide of ammo availability always does). eventually 9mm and 45acp will be widely available again (might be a while, but it'll happen lol).

my local walmarts have in fact gotten a bunch of 45acp in recently, but these clowns show up with their entire family and each person buys the maximum 6 boxes, cleaning out all 45 in a matter of an hour or 2! :mad:

[budroe]

Walmarts in our area always had plenty of .40S&W for sale. 9mm, .357, .38 special and especially .45acp was non-existent. Smaller calibers like .380, .32acp and .25 auto were never a problem either. I was able to stock up on .44 magnum and .45 Colt. I haven't seen a box of .41 magnum in a shop (even Walmart) since early this year. I know there are people who don't own a .41 who are buying the ammo.