[NAVIGATOR]

I have an older model S&W revolver (model 36--38spl). S&W strongly
recommends against using +P ammo in this piece. My question concerns Sellier & Bellot ammo. Is it a "hot" load like +P or is it a garden-variety target ammo load like Winchester USA (white box)?

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: NAVIGATOR ]

[John Henry]

The S&B rounds that I've shot (several thousand, in cals. I don't load) have all been pretty much mid-range in power.

They seem to be clean and I've had very few function problems.

[Tracker]

I've never used any handgun ammo from S&B, but have used their rifle ammo for the 7.62-54R and the 5.6-52R(.22 Sav.HP) for several years, and both are definately mid range in power.

[dinosaur]

I use S&B in my 9`s and it`s not hot. Good inexpensive practice ammo.

Now on that 36, around 1985 we switched from 158 gr. SWC to 158 gr. SWC+P. Most of the guys had Model 36`s as off duty weapons. We didn`t recommend a steady diet but there was no problem using it for the street. I have a Colt DS and never had a problem with +P ammo. Now if I carry it, I use 110 gr. non +P Hydro Shoks.

If you were to use a lot of +P ammo, you`d wind up not shooting the gun at all as it`s very uncomfortable.

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: dinosaur ]

[loknload]

Nav, I'll attest to not shooting +P ammo out of your 36. I collect 36's and 37's and I have shot +P's out of both of them. :eek: I want to tell you it STINGS LIKE HE** :eek:
None of mine were made for that round especially the 37's. I did it as an experiment to see what the results would be. A steady diet of these loads would in my estimation crack the frames and who knows what else.
Almost forgot to mention, I've used S&B ammo and it's good stuff, I've never had a problem with it.

Hope this helps ;)

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: loknload ]

[Arub]

The 158 grain FMJ S&B is not a "hot" round. It ain't bad either. Muzzle velocity is 889ft/sec and muzzle energy is 279ft/lbs. Compare this to UMC or Federal American Eagles 130grain (both popular ammo) at 950ft/sec and 260ft/lbs.

Their 9mm, on the other hand, is a fairly warm load. The 115 grain FMJ leaves the muzzle at 1280ft/sec and 423ft/lbs. Comparable UMC, American Eagle and Win. USAs run between 1135 to 1190 ft/sec and 320 to 362ft/lbs.

Stats presented are from the various manufactures ballistic charts on their respective web sites.

[Bubba]

Arub, I hate to question your info.. but those numbers sound REALLY high for the 158gn FMJ from S&B. Seems like we only chrono'ed those at like 780 fps or somewhere close to that out of a 4" revolver. I know we can NOT make the IDPA 125 Power Factor with S&B. It fails regularly. In order to make power factor, a 158 grn load has to hit about 791 fps. I know a number of other shooters have tried to make PF with it and can not. Winchester White Box is about the only factory 38 Special load that will make power factor consistently. Your number would put the S&B at a PF of close to 140. I would HAVE to believe that is a typo on their web site. I could believe 789. But 889 just sounds WAY too high. I believe very few standard factory loads can make the IDPA power factor in standard 38 Special without going to a +P or +P+. I could be wrong about that though as I don't shoot NEARLY as much revolver as some of my buddies do. :) And they are the ones telling me they will be allllll over me if I try to shoot those "Gamer" S&B loads. :D

Now, I have shot their .357 Mag and it DOES seem to be pretty hot. It is one of the few loads that will cycle my Coonan Cadet reliably. I have shot probably 5000 rounds of their .45 ACP hardball. It is not a hot load, but it is not light either. It makes a power factor of about 172 if I remember right. The 9mm seems to be at about the same level as the .45; pretty much right in the middle. I seem to remember those numbers at just a smidge over 1200 with a 115 grn round. 1220 seems to stick in my mind.

I shot about 700 rounds of the .38 Special in a one day class a couple of months ago. Yeah... my hands hurt. But it would have been a lot worse with full power loads. :) I don't think you can call these loads +P in any way.

[ 11-02-2001: Message edited by: Bubba ]

[LASur5r]

Hey Bubba and LNL,
Got to agree with your assessment of that 158 grainer...shot it out of an SP-101 with a three inch barrel.
Found out how sharp that frame was, cut my hands up pretty bad. Had a lot of torque, gun kept wanting to twist sideways.
My buddy at the gunshop who had recommended this round, had a little smirk on his face when I came back to his store to give my unofficial range report...with the bandages on my hand.

Nice joke...hah haahhh, yuck, yuck.