A New .327 Magnum Handgun project on the Horizion

[budroe]

Everytime I've read anything by an actual customer on Hamilton Bowen he comes across as a good man to do business with. This is an extremely nice gesture on his part!!! I'd be willing to bet you're going to be really happy with your mod!!!

[rjrivero]

Looking forward to hearing about your adventures with your NEW revolver.

[Hammerdown]

Originally Posted by rjrivero

Looking forward to hearing about your adventures with your NEW revolver.

Hello RJ & Budroe
Me Too... I am Intrigued with the thought that velocites for this round exceed .357 Magnum rounds. I feel it will be a Killer Deer Cartridge out to 30 Yards. I Plan on Pushing the Upper range of this cartridge as I Hand Load for it. I took The Weak Anemic .32 H&R Magnum cartridge to an amazing 1480 FPS using a Hornady XTP 85 Grain Bullet and almost a compressed Load of Hogdens H-110 Magnum Powder. I Cratered the Magnum Pistol Primers around 1350 so switched to small rifle Primers to get to 1480. That is almost 500 FPS Faster than it was loaded in Factory form. I will set up my Chronometer as soon as I get Loading for this .327 Magnum and report my findings Hammerdown

[Hammerdown]

Hi
I got a call from Hamilton Bowen Thursday to tell me my Smith & Wesson Model 16-4 cylinder was finished. I had Taken it to him to make it into a .327 Magnum. I drove out to his Shop and Picked my cylinder up in person then I came home & Put it together Late Thursday evening. I awoke Early Yesterday morning to assemble some Hand Loads for it. I Tried Three different hand loads and found that it Liked Two out of Three loads I had tried. I Loaded 12.0 Grains of Alliant 2400 Powder and used a 90 Grain Sierra copper Jacketed Hollow pint and a CCI Magnum Primer. The Load showed promise, but I feel Crimp is very crucial in Loading for this round and I had a Heavy crimp much more than I Needed. Report was a Lot Louder than the standard .32 H&R Magnum cartridge and recoil were about Double of what I had been used to shooting in the revolver. That made Perfect sense as the Pressure of the .32 H&R Magnum rounds I had been shooting was around 20,000 and this new .327 Magnum Cartridge is around 40,000.



I Then shot my last Loads which I used some Hodgen's Powder called Tight Group dispensing 3.6 Grains of Powder, a CCI Magnum primer and a Rainier 100 Grain Flat Point Bullet. This Load seemed to shine in this caliber. I managed to shoot a 4 shot cluster before making sight adjustments taking it to the Ten Ring, but Ran out of rounds. The Primers exhibited a bot of flatness, but I Noticed the extracted shells were a Tad Bit dirty Indicating to me I needed to increase the Powder a bit. The Load of 3.6 was a starting load so I came home and Re-loaded again Taking it to 4.6 Grains of Tight Group which is almost maximum. All In All, I felt the first time out with it that it shot well and I feel by Playing with the load a bit it will fair better the next time as I am Getting used to the caliber and what it Likes as far as Loads go. This caliber sure is fun to Play with and I am Glad I had the gun Modified for it. Here is the Target I shot with the Experimental Loads using Tight Group at the 20 Yard line... Hammerdown

[Williamlayton]

Cosmetics:
The cylinder is a bit darker---in the picture---than the body and barrel but the contrast is quite attractive.

I was fairly impressed with the grouping.
I am happy for you from the results shown here. you did a good piece of thinking and made some good decisions.
Congradulations &
Blessings

[lookingforthewayback]

Nice looking groups.
I use titegroup for 45 ACP and 9MM. As the name implies it was developed for accuracy. It is a great powder, you don't need to use much and it is not position sensitive.

[Hammerdown]

Originally Posted by Williamlayton

Cosmetics:
The cylinder is a bit darker---in the picture---than the body and barrel but the contrast is quite attractive.

I was fairly impressed with the grouping.
I am happy for you from the results shown here. you did a good piece of thinking and made some good decisions.
Congradulations &
Blessings

Hello William
The different contrast of the bluing is Purely Light conditions. I grabbed the Picture just before the sun dipped down. The groups are far from what I deem as Tight groups, but with Playing with the Powder charge and crimp of the round it should provide one hole ragged results as long as I do my part. I hope to Post follow up Pictures of much improved Tighter Groups later Next week... Hammerdown

[shoey]

Looks good!

[gunfan]

Congratulations! I believe that you can find some great "short range" hunting loads for this "little" revolver cartridge! You may be surprised to discover a new world of bullets to be used that were formerly used in the old .32-20.

Take my word for it, there is/was NOTHING wrong with the older cartridge. There are but two advantages I can see that accompany the new Magnum round:

a) It can accept the .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, (a personal favorite) .32 H&R Magnum & .327 Federal Magnum cartridges.

b) The .327 Federal Magnum operates at higher pressures. I have always felt that this is one of the factors that contribute to better accuracy in revolvers.

Another benefit, is the fact that the .312" projectile is inherently accurate. This was borne out during the late 1950's and into the 1960's. The .32 S&W Long reigned supreme in target shooting circles. From the proper platform, the .327 Federal Magnum should perform as well, or possibly even better. With judicious loading and consummate attention to detail, the .327 Federal Magnum should prove to be an interesting load for a multitude of purposes. It is a "modern" .32-20, if you will.

If Marlin would get off it's tochis and chamber a 16" barreled lever-action for the .327 Federal Magnum, we could have quite a bit of fun exploring the cartridges "outer limits" as a hunting cartridge.

(BTW, "Ballistics by the inch" quotes a velocity figure of 1894 fps and an energy of 916 fpe from an 16" closed-chamber barrel for the 115 grain American Eagle JHP).

Scott

[Hammerdown]

Originally Posted by lookingforthewayback

Nice looking groups.
I use titegroup for 45 ACP and 9MM. As the name implies it was developed for accuracy. It is a great powder, you don't need to use much and it is not position sensitive.

Hello Lookingforthewayback


I have used Tight Group in almost all my Center fire loads for many years now. I have found it to be one of the most economical , cleanest, most accurate Powder's I have come across. It must be loaded carefully though, due to it's tiny Increments in weight, Pressure can climb quickly & many shun it as they fear double charges with it will lead to disaster. I do not fear it, I just watch what I am doing while loading it, and stand to check all my Loads in the Loading block before seating any Bullets over it. The Target shown was on the bottom of the load being at 3.6 grains. I feel My crimp was effecting group size and later after I got home Tumbled the spent shells, and checked them I was shocked to see they ran as much as .060" In different lengths.



I don't know if this was due to inconsistencies in the Manufacturing process of them at Federal, or if Perhaps Bowen was Pushing them extra hard checking his work? Who would have thought that Twice fired round would vary so much ? I sorted them all and chose the shortest length to make them all equal and trimmed each one to that length. As shown I did have some fliers and I suspect Crimp may have played a role in that due to their Unequal length but now feel that with them all sized correctly that it should improve their accuracy. Lighter Crimping, is another issue with this round. Being that I had not fired it, all I had to go from was what others said about it being snappy and sharp in report and recoil, so I over crimped them a bit, Not knowing what to expect.



Now that I Re-Loaded them, I Backed off on the crimp and Increased the Powder to 4.0 Grains still not being Maximum which is 4.7 for this powder. I noticed some slight soot on the expelled shells so I figure a slight increase in Powder weight will rid that issue as it has worked well in the past when using this powder on Other Calibers. I will stick with Tight Group to see if I can shrink the groups well, before moving on to try any other Powders I have. This Caliber and Gun seemed to Like the Alliant 2400 Magnum Powder as well, But there was some spread on group size with that round as well, so I will get back to it later when I sort this powder out fully, to hone down on a Good Hunting round for it.... Hammerdown

[Hammerdown]

Originally Posted by gunfan

Congratulations! I believe that you can find some great "short range" hunting loads for this "little" revolver cartridge! You may be surprised to discover a new world of bullets to be used that were formerly used in the old .32-20.

Take my word for it, there is/was NOTHING wrong with the older cartridge. There are but two advantages I can see that accompany the new Magnum round:

a) It can accept the .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, (a personal favorite) .32 H&R Magnum & .327 Federal Magnum cartridges.

b) The .327 Federal Magnum operates at higher pressures. I have always felt that this is one of the factors that contribute to better accuracy in revolvers.

Another benefit, is the fact that the .312" projectile is inherently accurate. This was borne out during the late 1950's and into the 1960's. The .32 S&W Long reigned supreme in target shooting circles. From the proper platform, the .327 Federal Magnum should perform as well, or possibly even better. With judicious loading and consummate attention to detail, the .327 Federal Magnum should prove to be an interesting load for a multitude of purposes. It is a "modern" .32-20, if you will.

If Marlin would get off it's tochis and chamber a 16" barreled lever-action for the .327 Federal Magnum, we could have quite a bit of fun exploring the cartridges "outer limits" as a hunting cartridge.

(BTW, "Ballistics by the inch" quotes a velocity figure of 1894 fps and an energy of 916 fpe from an 16" closed-chamber barrel for the 115 grain American Eagle JHP).

Scott

Hello Scott
I agree with all you have said here. I have always been a Fan of the .32 Center fire round myself. I was Lucky enough to come across a Pre-16 K-32 Target Masterpiece a couple of Years ago from a forum member here, that I swapped with, and it is one of my Favorites in my collection, and I consider it to be a Crown jewel, it is shown below. I ringed out the .32 S&W Long caliber in it using 3.5 Grains of Unique under a 100 Grain Rainier flat Point bullet and it showed very good accuracy results as I increased the loads. The Problem is and was, that there hasn't been any recent research of expanding on that round due to the Lighter frame revolver's it was intended for way back then, so sometimes trial and error plays a role in finding what a gun reacts to.



I had a Nice S&W Fifth variation hand eject in 32-20 and it shot well. I did not like Re-loading for it as the Case necks tend to be fragile and dent easily. I let it go as it was a fixed sighted revolver, which I favor adjustable sights but should the Target Variation come along I will add one of those to the Pile. I Played with the .32 H&R Magnum round much a few years ago. I got the Loads hot enough to be Popping primers. I then switched to Small rifle primers that cured that problem and increased my loads to exceed those of the .357 magnum using an 85 Grain hornady Bullet and Hodgen's H-110 Magnum Powder. The last ones I tested showed a velocity of 1540 FPS and were super accurate, but I feared Hurting the gun so backed down on them. I wish I knew then what I Know now, as this .327 Magnum round is Twice the pressure of the Old H&R Magnum and I Might have been able to Break 1600 FPS accurately while testing those.


I noticed a Load for this .327 Magnum using a 60 grain Gold Dot Bullet that showed a Velocity of 2110 FPS. That is Just wild and seeing Rifle velocity out of a Revolver barrel is amazing to me. I do have some of those 60 grainer's and may try to duplicate that Load later on once I see how well this Gun reacts to the hotter loads fired through it. I am still hesitant to load real hot with it always thinking it was made to fire the Pukey Low performance .32 H&R magnum that averaged 1000 FPS seeing velocities of Double that, makes one Cringe when thinking of loading for it that way..



I am Hoping Marlin comes out with a Lever Gun chambered in .327 magnum. I wanted a 32 H&R Magnum Marlin lever gun back when they came out, but Missed the boat on those as they went quickly and seem to be Non existent now.. I am sure Bowen could do the same thing to a Marlin rifle by lengthening the throat to accept the .327 magnum round and perhaps that may be an Idea for later on if they do not come out with one in the .327 Magnum caliber... Hammerdown

[gunfan]

Originally Posted by Hammerdown

Hello Scott
I agree with all you have said here. I have always been a Fan of the .32 Center fire round myself. I was Lucky enough to come across a Pre-16 K-32 Target Masterpiece a couple of Years ago from a forum member here, that I swapped with, and it is one of my Favorites in my collection, and I consider it to be a Crown jewel, it is shown below. I ringed out the .32 S&W Long caliber in it using 3.5 Grains of Unique under a 100 Grain Rainier flat Point bullet and it showed very good accuracy results as I increased the loads. The Problem is and was, that there hasn't been any recent research of expanding on that round due to the Lighter frame revolver's it was intended for way back then, so sometimes trial and error plays a role in finding what a gun reacts to.



I had a Nice S&W Fifth variation hand eject in 32-20 and it shot well. I did not like Re-loading for it as the Case necks tend to be fragile and dent easily. I let it go as it was a fixed sighted revolver, which I favor adjustable sights but should the Target Variation come along I will add one of those to the Pile. I Played with the .32 H&R Magnum round much a few years ago. I got the Loads hot enough to be Popping primers. I then switched to Small rifle primers that cured that problem and increased my loads to exceed those of the .357 magnum using an 85 Grain hornady Bullet and Hodgen's H-110 Magnum Powder. The last ones I tested showed a velocity of 1540 FPS and were super accurate, but I feared Hurting the gun so backed down on them. I wish I knew then what I Know now, as this .327 Magnum round is Twice the pressure of the Old H&R Magnum and I Might have been able to Break 1600 FPS accurately while testing those.


I noticed a Load for this .327 Magnum using a 60 grain Gold Dot Bullet that showed a Velocity of 2110 FPS. That is Just wild and seeing Rifle velocity out of a Revolver barrel is amazing to me. I do have some of those 60 grainer's and may try to duplicate that Load later on once I see how well this Gun reacts to the hotter loads fired through it. I am still hesitant to load real hot with it always thinking it was made to fire the Pukey Low performance .32 H&R magnum that averaged 1000 FPS seeing velocities of Double that, makes one Cringe when thinking of loading for it that way..



I am Hoping Marlin comes out with a Lever Gun chambered in .327 magnum. I wanted a 32 H&R Magnum Marlin lever gun back when they came out, but Missed the boat on those as they went quickly and seem to be Non existent now.. I am sure Bowen could do the same thing to a Marlin rifle by lengthening the throat to accept the .327 magnum round and perhaps that may be an Idea for later on if they do not come out with one in the .327 Magnum caliber... Hammerdown

Dear Hammerdown:

Whatever you do, don't sell the .32 H&R Magnum short. It is an excellent SD and varminting round. Not only can it push a 98-grain bullet from a 6" barrel at a reasonably healthy rate of speed, but the muzzle blast from 2, 4 or 6" barrels is not abusive. It has it's place. (Let that be a lesson to you)!

I'd be willing to bet that if you could procure a Marlin 1894 lever-action rifle chambered for the .357 S&W Magnum cartridge and have them provide you with a .32-20 barrel blank, you could have a .327 Federal Magnum carbine fabricated for you in short order. If you can find a Marlin chambered in .32 H&R Magnum you CAN have the barrel "broach cut" (rechambered) to accomodate the .327 Federal Magnum cartridge. I can think of NOTHING that would be more fun to use in dense forests to take Whitetail Deer with hot-loaded 115-grain American Eagle ammunition. There's enough power to get the job done without destroying the meat of your quarry.

The versatility of this round will go relatively unnoticed for a long time. This is because the .32-20 will have its following. Those of this persuasion will see no earthly reason to buy dies for the newer cartridge. I have heard all of the arguments of the .32-20 lovers since the .327's arrival a year ago. The lower pressure round is great, but the new .327 has so much more versatility that there is no excuse for stepping into the 21st century, without retaining the versatility of the earlier low-pressure revolver chamberings of the 1880's!

Dropping .32 S&W revolver cartriges in a 16" barreled carbine... What fun! Routing garden pests; training new shooters; quietly slaughtering farm animals for butchering; the list goes on and on. This application is the centerfire handloader's dream as a replacement for the .22 Short.

The .32 S&W Long as a carbine round has had an excellent reputation for excellent accuracy, perfromance and ease of loading, and is a perrenial favorite among knowledgeable shooters.

The .32 H&R Magnum in that carbine can STILL make a good showing when it comes to Coyotes, Wolves and other larger pests.

These are the elusive qualities that elude the shooters of the larger centerfire carbines. It is too bad that most modern shooters feel the need to have a "big bore" carbine to accomplish the task. Sometimes less truly IS more!

Scott

[Hammerdown]

Originally Posted by gunfan

Dear Hammerdown:

Whatever you do, don't sell the .32 H&R Magnum short. It is an excellent SD and varminting round. Not only can it push a 98-grain bullet from a 6" barrel at a reasonably healthy rate of speed, but the muzzle blast from 2, 4 or 6" barrels is not abusive. It has it's place. (Let that be a lesson to you)!

Hello Scott
I Don't sell it short. I carry a-J-Frame Air-Weight Model 431 PD Revolver chambered in it every day on my side for protection... Hammerdown

[Oriondk]

I read somewhere that there was someone chambering a lever action for .327 Federal, but don't remember who or even where I read it. Pretty useless, aren't I?

[Hammerdown]

Originally Posted by Oriondk

I read somewhere that there was someone chambering a lever action for .327 Federal, but don't remember who or even where I read it. Pretty useless, aren't I?

Hello Oriondk
I have heard all Kinds of Gossip about Marlin Making this rifel in .327 Magnum but have yet to see one out there... Hammerdown

[Hammerdown]

Hello
Yesterday I Put together & shot some .32 S&W Long Caliber loads to see how well they grouped out of my Newly Modified Bowen conversion revolver. I was a Bit skeptical of how well they would group after Bowen lengthened the cylinder throats a full 1/8", But as you can see once I got the elevation adjusted it grouped nicely proving in this case that Bullet Jump did not seem to matter changing calibers in this revolver anyways...The cluster of six shots shown measured 1/2" which was shot at the 20 Yard line from a sand Bag.. Hammerdown

[lookingforthewayback]

Glad to see the conversion worked out so well. I was pretty sure you would get these results, my SW 460 shoots with similar accuracy using 45C/454Cas/460SW and the difference there is over 1/2 inch in length between the 45c and the 460. Nice shooting by the way.

[gunfan]

Originally Posted by Hammerdown

Hello
Yesterday I Put together & shot some .32 S&W Long Caliber loads to see how well they grouped out of my Newly Modified Bowen conversion revolver. I was a Bit skeptical of how well they would group after Bowen lengthened the cylinder throats a full 1/8", But as you can see once I got the elevation adjusted it grouped nicely proving in this case that Bullet Jump did not seem to matter changing calibers in this revolver anyways...The cluster of six shots shown measured 1/2" which was shot at the 20 Yard line from a sand Bag.. Hammerdown

Excellent! Now all that's needed to complete the "experimental" trials is 1000 .32 S&W cases. Loading these is a straigtforward proposition. This cartridge may surprise you even more than the results from the .32 S&W Long cases.

What may be difficult to locate, are the 88-grain RNL projectiles for this exercise. I'll get back to you later in this thread and provide you with the loading data concerning using #0 Buckshot for "gallery" loads for the venerable old .32 S&W.

It should prove both illuminating and lots of fun!

Scott

[Williamlayton]

I am thinking that the grouping must be good according to what I read---my eyes, you know, my eyes.
For real----those groups are good, very good indeed, from such a young weapon.
You are on the right path.
I have been reading about the .32m and I find it facinating---what I find less facinating is the offerings in this caliber---even if I wanted to go your route, the offerings are less than desireable.
Thanks for the read--it is fun.
Blessings

[Hammerdown]

Originally Posted by Williamlayton

I am thinking that the grouping must be good according to what I read---my eyes, you know, my eyes.
For real----those groups are good, very good indeed, from such a young weapon.
You are on the right path.
I have been reading about the .32m and I find it facinating---what I find less facinating is the offerings in this caliber---even if I wanted to go your route, the offerings are less than desireable.
Thanks for the read--it is fun.
Blessings

Hello William

I sometimes have trouble shooting due to focus. I wear glass's with Bi-Focal's and have Diabetes' and some days the sights grow real Fuzzy. The group shown to me is average, I still need to hone in on the Cartridge and what it likes. The current offerings are One-J-frame target revolver from S&W. Two from Ruger and One from Charter Arms. That should give you one to select from Hammerdown