is 40cal still worth the $$? - Page 2

**Sir Knight** · 11-04-2009, 11:41 AM

I really like these pictures because the images speaks for themselves ...

... remember that the more flesh that is displaced, the greater damage is done to the body and the more effective the bullet is in stopping an attack ...

NOTE: Photos are not mine but have been floating around the web for a while

**Magnum Force** · 11-04-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoey

The energy arguement is valid, however, we see it at odds all over the place. Look at dangerous game rifles, for instance. While a lot of the high powered rifles carry a lot more energy with relatively smaller bullets driven at a lot higher velocities, the big, slow bullets are still the overwhelming prference for knockdown and stopping power. The higher caliber bullet just seems to hit harder.

yep i agree on this issue when it comes to pistols too.

a lot of folk like the 147grn 9mm's, but i'm not a fan of them. the 9mm bullet isn't big enough to have much knockdown power at subsonic velocities.

they say they like the 147grn's jhp's penetration capability, but the 124grn & and 115grn jhp's penetrate enough for me-and deliver more energy!

for 45acp-i like the 230grn standard pressure jhp's.

for 40cal-i have some 165grn federal HST's. great performers in that caliber.

but like i said, i'll might just sell my 40cal's and buy another 1911 or 9mm....

**Magnum Force** · 11-04-2009, 09:50 PM

NOTE: Photos are not mine but have been floating around the web for a while[/quote]

the 45 jhp's in this pic are the ranger talons that i have-good stuff

(i've seen them site that pic's from)

**Sir Knight** · 11-05-2009, 07:03 AM

I like Rangers the best but they are sometimes hard to come by. Second choice goes to GoldDots. Then Hornady. Normally don't bother with the rest any more if I have a choice in the matter.

**Magnum Force** · 11-05-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Knight

I like Rangers the best but they are sometimes hard to come by. Second choice goes to GoldDots. Then Hornady. Normally don't bother with the rest any more if I have a choice in the matter.

i lucked out on the 45acp ranger talons-my local shop got a bunch of RA45T in stock -50 round boxes for $39.99 each. not a bad deal. wish i bought more than one box though.....

**lookingforthewayback** · 11-06-2009, 12:50 AM

I use federal HSTs 147gr 9MM and 230 gr 45ACP, but they are really hard to find. They open up very similar to the talons, very nasty.

**budroe** · 11-06-2009, 01:52 AM

I think a better question would be to ask now that the .40 is available is the 9mm a valid choice. The .40 is available in the same sized handguns as the 9mm. The glock 23 holds 3 rounds less than the glock 19. I see no advantage to cheap military 9mm ammo; for one thing - there's not any cheap 9mm military ammo floating around these days. With the majority of American LEO's going to the .40 there will always be readily available premium ammo produced for that round. I have plenty of 9mm ammo squirrelled away. If I was starting out right now, I'd skp the 9mm altogether and go straight to the .40 or .45acp. I like the Winchester Ranger ammo, the gold dots or Federal hydra-shoks.

**Magnum Force** · 11-06-2009, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budroe

I think a better question would be to ask now that the .40 is available is the 9mm a valid choice. The .40 is available in the same sized handguns as the 9mm. The glock 23 holds 3 rounds less than the glock 19. I see no advantage to cheap military 9mm ammo; for one thing - there's not any cheap 9mm military ammo floating around these days. With the majority of American LEO's going to the .40 there will always be readily available premium ammo produced for that round. I have plenty of 9mm ammo squirrelled away. If I was starting out right now, I'd skp the 9mm altogether and go straight to the .40 or .45acp. I like the Winchester Ranger ammo, the gold dots or Federal hydra-shoks.

you know, for the longest time i haven't seen any cheap surplus military 9mm. now all of a sudden, there's this cheap pakistani surplus 9mm all around town in my area. it's surprisingly accurate too....

**Sir Knight** · 11-06-2009, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budroe

I think a better question would be to ask now that the .40 is available is the 9mm a valid choice. The .40 is available in the same sized handguns as the 9mm. The glock 23 holds 3 rounds less than the glock 19. I see no advantage to cheap military 9mm ammo; for one thing - there's not any cheap 9mm military ammo floating around these days. With the majority of American LEO's going to the .40 there will always be readily available premium ammo produced for that round. I have plenty of 9mm ammo squirrelled away. If I was starting out right now, I'd skp the 9mm altogether and go straight to the .40 or .45acp. I like the Winchester Ranger ammo, the gold dots or Federal hydra-shoks.

Any new 9mm's that I buy are either subcompact/pocketgun in size ... my Kahr PM9 (yes, I know that there is a PM40 but that has been too much recoil in such a small package and adversely affects recoil while that is not the case in the 9mm), my Colt Pocket Nine, Rohrbaugh R9, etc. Anything larger is now purchased in a forty -- I do this for exactly the reasons mentioned.

**PreserveFreedom** · 11-06-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum Force

for civilians though (at least for me), we don't encounter the same persistent threats that cops do. chances are that i'll never have to use a gun to defend my life, and if i do, 1-3 shots will subdue the threat. (especially at the usual "conflict range" of less than 7 yards).

Since you have to buy a whole box anyway, why not carry as much from that box as you can?

**lookingforthewayback** · 11-06-2009, 05:09 PM

If I get in a gunfight as a civilian that requires me to go to a second magazine or use a majority of my first magazine I am probaly somewhere I had no business being. I do carry a 9 with 1/15, a second mag with 15 and a P3AT with 2 6 rd mags. I doubt I will ever need the first one but I have them if it goes to hell in a hand basket. I do train every week like it will happen.

**Magnum Force** · 11-06-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreserveFreedom

Since you have to buy a whole box anyway, why not carry as much from that box as you can?

well that gets a little heavy after a while

i feel fine carrying an 8 shot 1911, generally don't have backup mags either (i'm not expecting to be accosted by a squad of terrorists like in the movies lol)

**Blueridge** · 11-06-2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budroe

I think a better question would be to ask now that the .40 is available is the 9mm a valid choice. The .40 is available in the same sized handguns as the 9mm. The glock 23 holds 3 rounds less than the glock 19. I see no advantage to cheap military 9mm ammo; for one thing - there's not any cheap 9mm military ammo floating around these days. With the majority of American LEO's going to the .40 there will always be readily available premium ammo produced for that round. I have plenty of 9mm ammo squirrelled away. If I was starting out right now, I'd skp the 9mm altogether and go straight to the .40 or .45acp. I like the Winchester Ranger ammo, the gold dots or Federal hydra-shoks.

I'm not seeing the majority of LEO's going to .40, but to .45 ACP. The S&W M&P's are the handguns I see being chosen in that caliber. Maybe it is quite different around where you are.

**Blueridge** · 11-06-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum Force

well that gets a little heavy after a while

i feel fine carrying an 8 shot 1911, generally don't have backup mags either (i'm not expecting to be accosted by a squad of terrorists like in the movies lol)

When I am carrying, I have at least a spare magazine for whatever I have with me. You never know when something can go wrong and you need the second magazine. Eight shots is great, but some situations don't lend themselves to only needing one magazine.

**Popeye** · 11-06-2009, 10:21 PM

Boy, do I ever feel inadequate! I carry a J frame revolver.

**Magnum Force** · 11-06-2009, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popeye

Boy, do I ever feel inadequate! I carry a J frame revolver.

uh oh-only 5 shots! you'll surely be killed when when the south african drug lords swoop in on helicopters to shoot up your trailer!

**Popeye** · 11-06-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum Force

uh oh-only 5 shots! you'll surely be killed when when the south african drug lords swoop in on helicopters to shoot up your trailer!

Guess that's a chance I'll have to take.

**Williamlayton** · 11-07-2009, 04:02 AM

And the beat goes on.
Capacity and power are not the same thing.
I own a .40 in a Sig 239--and I have the .357 barrel. I much prefer the shooting of the .357Sig too the .40--the recoil is remarkedly different.
I don't have much of a prefrence over a lot of ammo verses 8.
The .45 is a better rond for stopping--wheather it kills or not.
Now i like the .38 super or 9x23 much better that the .357Sig or the .40--lets compare capacity now.
Blessings

**Magnum Force** · 11-07-2009, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Williamlayton

And the beat goes on.
Capacity and power are not the same thing.
I own a .40 in a Sig 239--and I have the .357 barrel. I much prefer the shooting of the .357Sig too the .40--the recoil is remarkedly different.
I don't have much of a prefrence over a lot of ammo verses 8.
The .45 is a better rond for stopping--wheather it kills or not.
Now i like the .38 super or 9x23 much better that the .357Sig or the .40--lets compare capacity now.
Blessings

does the 357sig have less muzzle flip than 40? is it less snappy?

**Williamlayton** · 11-07-2009, 09:20 AM

IMO
The .40 is a much heavier recoil and the .357Sig is more snappy.
I control the Sig easier and quicker.
That is just me---opinions vary--do it for yourownself.
Blessings

11-04-2009, 11:41 AM	#21
Sir Knight Join Date: May 25 2001 Location: Hills of PA Posts: 17,396	I really like these pictures because the images speaks for themselves ... ... remember that the more flesh that is displaced, the greater damage is done to the body and the more effective the bullet is in stopping an attack ... NOTE: Photos are not mine but have been floating around the web for a while - - - "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance. To ensure peace, security, and happiness, the rifle and pistol are indispensable. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour. They deserve a place of honor with all that is good." — President George Washington. "The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage firearms practice among schoolchildren, and indeed among all, by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace. The first step ... in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war if it should come -- is to teach our citizens to shoot!" — President Theodore Roosevelt. "No president should fear public scrutiny of his program, for from that scrutiny comes understanding and from that understanding come support or opposition. Without debate, without criticism, no administration and no country can succeed and no republic can survive." -- President John F. Kennedy. "You won't get gun control by disarming law-abiding citizens. There's only one way to get real gun control: disarm the thugs and the criminals, lock them up, and if you don't actually throw away the key, at least lose it for a long time. It's a nasty truth, but as long as there are guns, the individual that wants a gun for a crime is going to have one and going to get it. The only person who’s going to be penalized [with gun control] and have difficulty is the law-abiding citizen, who then cannot have [it] if he wants protection." -- President Ronald Reagan.

11-05-2009, 07:03 AM	#24
Sir Knight Join Date: May 25 2001 Location: Hills of PA Posts: 17,396	I like Rangers the best but they are sometimes hard to come by. Second choice goes to GoldDots. Then Hornady. Normally don't bother with the rest any more if I have a choice in the matter. - - - "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance. To ensure peace, security, and happiness, the rifle and pistol are indispensable. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour. They deserve a place of honor with all that is good." — President George Washington. "The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage firearms practice among schoolchildren, and indeed among all, by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace. The first step ... in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war if it should come -- is to teach our citizens to shoot!" — President Theodore Roosevelt. "No president should fear public scrutiny of his program, for from that scrutiny comes understanding and from that understanding come support or opposition. Without debate, without criticism, no administration and no country can succeed and no republic can survive." -- President John F. Kennedy. "You won't get gun control by disarming law-abiding citizens. There's only one way to get real gun control: disarm the thugs and the criminals, lock them up, and if you don't actually throw away the key, at least lose it for a long time. It's a nasty truth, but as long as there are guns, the individual that wants a gun for a crime is going to have one and going to get it. The only person who’s going to be penalized [with gun control] and have difficulty is the law-abiding citizen, who then cannot have [it] if he wants protection." -- President Ronald Reagan.

11-06-2009, 12:50 AM	#26
lookingforthewayback Join Date: March 25 2009 Location: Panhandle of Florida Posts: 3,503	I use federal HSTs 147gr 9MM and 230 gr 45ACP, but they are really hard to find. They open up very similar to the talons, very nasty. Tact: Making someone feel at home when you wish they were. "The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." Patrick Henry Our enemies have trained our teachers and professors. Our teachers have trained our children. "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. " Thomas Jefferson “If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams Gary

11-06-2009, 01:52 AM	#27
budroe Join Date: June 15 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 7,556	I think a better question would be to ask now that the .40 is available is the 9mm a valid choice. The .40 is available in the same sized handguns as the 9mm. The glock 23 holds 3 rounds less than the glock 19. I see no advantage to cheap military 9mm ammo; for one thing - there's not any cheap 9mm military ammo floating around these days. With the majority of American LEO's going to the .40 there will always be readily available premium ammo produced for that round. I have plenty of 9mm ammo squirrelled away. If I was starting out right now, I'd skp the 9mm altogether and go straight to the .40 or .45acp. I like the Winchester Ranger ammo, the gold dots or Federal hydra-shoks. "Guns are for home protection, hunting dangerous or tasty animals, and keeping the king of England out of your face."-Krusty the clown

11-06-2009, 05:09 PM	#31
lookingforthewayback Join Date: March 25 2009 Location: Panhandle of Florida Posts: 3,503	If I get in a gunfight as a civilian that requires me to go to a second magazine or use a majority of my first magazine I am probaly somewhere I had no business being. I do carry a 9 with 1/15, a second mag with 15 and a P3AT with 2 6 rd mags. I doubt I will ever need the first one but I have them if it goes to hell in a hand basket. I do train every week like it will happen. Tact: Making someone feel at home when you wish they were. "The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." Patrick Henry Our enemies have trained our teachers and professors. Our teachers have trained our children. "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. " Thomas Jefferson “If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams Gary

View Poll Results: is 40cal worth the same price as 45acp?
yes	16	50.00%
no	16	50.00%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

11-04-2009, 09:50 PM	#23
Magnum Force Join Date: June 30 2009 Posts: 99	NOTE: Photos are not mine but have been floating around the web for a while[/quote] the 45 jhp's in this pic are the ranger talons that i have-good stuff (i've seen them site that pic's from)

11-06-2009, 10:21 PM	#35
Popeye Join Date: July 12 2003 Location: Sacramento area, CA Posts: 63,104	Boy, do I ever feel inadequate! I carry a J frame revolver. The difference between a Socialist and a Communist is that the Socialist doesn't have all the guns yet.

11-07-2009, 04:02 AM	#38
Williamlayton Join Date: January 8 2005 Location: TEXAS, by GOD Posts: 865	And the beat goes on. Capacity and power are not the same thing. I own a .40 in a Sig 239--and I have the .357 barrel. I much prefer the shooting of the .357Sig too the .40--the recoil is remarkedly different. I don't have much of a prefrence over a lot of ammo verses 8. The .45 is a better rond for stopping--wheather it kills or not. Now i like the .38 super or 9x23 much better that the .357Sig or the .40--lets compare capacity now. Blessings

11-07-2009, 09:20 AM	#40
Williamlayton Join Date: January 8 2005 Location: TEXAS, by GOD Posts: 865	IMO The .40 is a much heavier recoil and the .357Sig is more snappy. I control the Sig easier and quicker. That is just me---opinions vary--do it for yourownself. Blessings

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